We're Certain Found Ken, er Whit Whitman's Current Scheme: AI Music

 99.9% Sure that we've found another alias for Ken "Whit" Whitman...and technically it wouldn't be an alias, but a fake persona for our main man...possibly a persona that allows him to make some money on the side.

Alex Idell

Seriously, who the hell is Alex Idell? As near as we can tell a literal nobody. This persona is allegedly a singer with no social media presence outside of being in some Little Monsters Entertainment "videos".

Now think about it a minute....do you know a single musical artist that is not doing everything they can to "get their name out there"? None of us can.

Our hot take is that Alex Idell isn't actually a person, but an AI generated set of musical tones. This is our reasoning:

1. The entire lack of social media presence outside of, at the time of writing, three (3) Little Monster Entertainment "videos".
2. The entire lack of ANY web results outside of the aforementioned videos (Kenny, that word means "stuff we said earlier").
3. "Lyrics by Whit Whitman" appear on each video, as well as "©2024 by Whit Whitman" on two of the videos.
4. You can buy Alex Idell's MP3 Album for $9.99 on Amazon Music
5. The videos are dated August 21, 23, and 24th of this year and they are all obviously AI generated videos.

Now, this doesn't obviously point to fact that Alex Idell is an AI, but.....

Little Monsters also uploaded a song/video called "The English Rap" and that one is denoted as "Performed by AI" as well as "Lyrics ©2024 Whit Whitman." Who really thinks that our main man, who self-professes to be "just trying to survive and make money" has the bandwidth to be writing music? On top of making movies and mentoring children?

...and if he's such a film-maker, why is he using AI generated music videos? Allegedly he knows how to make short form video as he's been proffering himself as a mentor and industry professional for years. This would be a great opportunity to promote himself as a filmmaker.....but instead he's using AI. The album: Persistence to the Point of Success isn't showing up anywhere...yet.

So we have evidence of Ken "Whit" Whitman using AI to make music and to make videos. It isn't a huge leap of logic to assume he's also using it to write the music and to create a virtual singer. 

Oh, and Alex Idell isn't the only one...there is also Atlanta Ingram who doesn't seem to have any existence outside of the song, "Home-Less for the Holidays", which seems to be the theme song for the same titled movie that Kenny has coming out next week.

Of course Kenny hasn't disclosed that these videos are AI generated, which is a YouTube requirement:

"Creators must disclose content that:

• Makes a real person appear to say or do something they didn’t do
• Alters footage of a real event or place
• Generates a realistic-looking scene that didn’t actually occur

This could include content that is fully or partially altered or created using audio, video or image creation or editing tools."

The emphasis is ours.....

See for yourself:

Pure NAD Speculation Based off of Ken "Whit" Whitman's Recent Interview

Post Warning: This post is mostly speculation, cannot be taken as fact (although there will be some facts presented), and is presented pretty much as a plea for assistance in either substantiating our speculation or debunking it in its entirety.

In reviewing the text from last week's Ken Whitman interview, a couple of things stood out and there was this huge underlying question of "Why now?"

People generally only do things for a reason and if Ken "Whit" Whitman is surfacing now, there has to be some rationale (for him) for doing so. At first we thought he might be going the "I've been getting help and I'm not that scammer anymore route" he did that once before and suckered Jolly Blackburn and it lead to his run of six unfulfilled Kickstarters and an excess of $187K:

"Ken's apologies and talk of being on new meds for his ADHD and having turned over a new leaf..."

So that seemed a good motivation....Kenny trying to dip into the same well for another go. Makes sense when you see his regular claims that he could start a new Kickstarter at any moment "And just to let everyone know, I can start a Kickstarter anytime I want."

The thing is...he's done Kickstarters and if he started another one of those, there would hundreds if not thousands of people backing for a buck just to get in and warn everyone to run, and run fast.

No....no...there is something else goin on and again that's why we have to go into speculation mode.

The first thing that stood out to use from the interview, out of the many things we won't elaborate now, was he mentioned a couple times that, "but I have never, since the time that we've done this, paid myself more than $18,000 a year."

$18K a year...why is that number significant?

Now again, pure speculation, but a cursory check reveals that $18,600 is the magic cut-off number for determining if your employment is considered a Substantial Gainful Activity (SGA) when collecting Social Security Disability Insurance. Now we're not knocking anyone who needs to collect disability, but when a known scam-artist is on disability and limiting himself to a salary of $18,000 (or less),  which means he could pay himself more.....that's suspect.

Another number that jumped out again, because he said it twice in quick succession, was 480: "And then each state will give a kid 480 hours worth of being paid."

480 hours......480 hours, again why is this significant. 

Well there just so happens to be a Federally-funded (state administered) youth program called Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA) that gives money, or in this case, labor, to employers: Work Experience Program or Work-Based Learning places jobseekers with an employer for up to 480 hours at no cost to the employer as it is covered by WIOA.

The way Ken describes what's he up to.....seems to fit right in line with Kentucky's initiatives with WIOA, so we're speculating that Whit is getting free labor from the great state of Kentucky: "I paid my kids $15, the state of Kentucky paid them."

So everybody's tracking...we're speculating that Ken "Whit" Whitman is a) limiting his "income" to $18K a year to maximize his SSDI gains and b) He's using state-provided labor to make movies. 

That seems like it should be enough for one post, but in reviewing things....we've noticed that Ken's fake charity has a new facelift! Now in the interview Ken stated that "I have never taken any donations with it so far." We do not believe, for a second, that Kenny hasn't taken any donations, but even if he hasn't...it's kind of chilling that he's specifically said..."so far", as in "yet".

Coupling this with the Community Film Collaborative website...no, not the Square site we mentioned earlier, maybe that is a red herring (?), but there is a new site: www.communityfilmcollaborative.org This new website has Kenny's fingerprints all over it, albeit a bit more professional looking than expected. It's a Kentucky registered site, but the pertinents are otherwise made private. The site is pretty much two, maybe three, pages right now and everything just links back onto the "about" page.

Now normally when a website is being made it it doesn't "go live" until it's complete, but this amateur operation is up now. It's clear that some of the pics are AI generated and the text is generally BS. This thing wasn't created in 2010, and those are so not the members of the "dedicated team".

Yeah....not buying it. You know what else we're not buying? That The Community Film Collaborative is an actual entity. We checked this morning....

Of course the "charity" is defunct, but Ken's "for profit" side of things is current...imagine that....

This updates our speculation to include this new bit information: Kenny is getting free labor from the state to help make films, soliciting donations (or at the very least getting set up to do so) to make films using the free labor as a selling point, not directly, but still....., and funneling everything through the only legal entity and "limiting" himself to only making $18K a year. He's clearly making more, otherwise he couldn't "limit" anything...

....but then, what's the angle?

Well the new website is telling, for certain, but....is it enough? Let's head back into the interview...

"Well, I am probably 24 months away from even having a profit off of anything that I'm doing. I am barely making a living right now and have to stretch out another 24 months before I see any profits from a film."

....and there it is!

Everything is revolving around Kenny making and the profiting off of his films, which is funny because he profited off of what, three films through Kickstarter and they were never completed (at least by him as promised). He's clearly profiting (but not by too much!), off of his "current" films, and he anticipates making money off of them in the future.

While still speculation....it all makes a lot of sense!

At the beginning of this post we mentioned a plea for assistance. We'd love to either prove or disprove (NOT WRITING TO YOU KENNY) these presumptions. If you happen to have 1st hand knowledge to share, please do:

2024.11.07 Transcript of Ken "Whit" Whitman Interview (Warning: HUGE Wall of text!)

 

We here at Not Another Dime (for Ken Whitman) endeavor to *just* document the many ......efforts of one Ken "Whit" Whitman. While it is difficult to remain objective I think everyone involved agrees that we have our own biases, mostly because we've been doing this for, what (?) over nine years now.

That's a lot of time & effort on one guy, but at the end of the decade day we do this so Kenny doesn't get to freely leech off of our community (everyone involved with NAD are gamers) yet again. When Kenny resurfaces to run what we perceive to be a new scam, we want anyone willing to put even a modicum of effort into a quick Google search to find out some important background on him.

We have ALWAYS told our readers that they shouldn't just blindly take our word on the nature of Ken "Whit" Whitman's character, but to read everything they can and to make their own informed decision. A big problem is that our main man has frequently said/did stuff online, especially on social media, and then scrubbed things the best he can. Whenever possible we've provided direct links to his words and actions and if you see an inactive link...well that's probably what happened.

This is why information from outside sources is so valuable, like the interview Ken did last week. It's just two posts earlier than this posting, but since this is going to be a long post, and we don't do post breaks here, it might be useful to re-share the video.

The transcript starts from Ken's initial introduction to his departure. There is more to the end of the interview where the hosts discuss what just happened, but you can watch the video if that interests you....

Main Editor's Note: This was run through some transcription software and still needs some edits, but we needed to get this out sooner rather than later. It shouldn't be hard to understand what is actually being said and if we get the chance we will be cleaning it up for future use.

Host Don

Ken, again, thank you for coming on the show. I know this is kind of like a first thing for you, first time coming on a show like this. Yeah, it's been a long time coming, right?

 

Yep, it's a big step for it, we understand that. So I guess what we'll do is we'll just kind of dive right in, how's that? Sounds great.

 

All right, real quick, I'm gonna just kind of start off the show with something is, I may use language like notorious, things like that, I don't mean it in negative, but let's face it, I mean, a lot of people know about you.

 

Host Tom V

There's some variety, yeah.

 

Host Don

Yep, you got no variety with you. So let me ask you this question is, what made you decide to finally come out, talk about things, be agreeable to answer questions and come on the show?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, first of all, I wanna say to everybody, I apologize for a lot of my past actions from years ago. Probably about, and if I seem stressed out, I actually really am, because this is important to me to be on here and talk with you guys. I know you're gonna do hard questions.

 

I'm gonna do my best to answer them. I have, I spent all day making sheets so that I can remember things correctly. And once again, if I take time to look at something to make sure that I say the right things, understand it's just, this is kind of stressful for me.

 

I'm gonna do my best to tell you my version of the truth. And even if that means that I admit that I am the villain in a lot of people's stories, and I was, and probably rightfully so, I was. And I admit to doing a whole lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't have done.

 

But I would say about three years ago, I kind of probably not just hit rock bottom. It took me a long time, but that was the time when I decided to really take accountability for everything. And I know it's gonna sound strange, but I kind of gave it to the universe, gave it to God, whatever you wanna say.

 

And I was gonna quit and I was just gonna go do something. I don't know what I was gonna do. But the one thing that I've always said is if you're depressed, volunteer.

 

If you're lost, take on responsibility. And so I went down because I had worked with kids who have barriers of entry into the workforce. And the only thing that they cared about was that I worked on Dungeons and Dragons and that I made movies.

 

So it's almost like the universe gave it back to me and said, here, now help these kids. Now this is your nonprofit, right? That is my nonprofit, it is.

 

And I use that along with films I make. I'm in the process of trying to be a post-secondary school to teach filmmaking to kids. And that's where I'm headed with everything.

 

In the last three years, I've taught five kids and I've helped four of them get into college. And to me, I'm using my creativity to make movies right now but I hope one day that I'll be teaching kids how to write and how to do their own stuff because technology is changing. You can actually pick up your iPhone right now and make a movie if you actually know what you're doing.

 

And so that answers the long about way of why I'm here today. And again, thank you guys for letting me come on.

 

Host Don

Well, I mean, I think as you can see from the chat, we have the chat separated, it's in stream. So everybody that's talking, no matter what channel that they're on, whether they're on Eric's, Tom's or mine, they're coming up in here. We're not gonna be able to keep up with the chat.

 

I'll tell you that right now, it is so active right now. But we're gonna pull comments out of the chat. We're not cherry picking it.

 

I'm just grabbing them as I can grab them between us talking. So it's not trying to target you or nothing. But you mentioned your nonprofit, okay?

 

Now your nonprofit is the one that helps kids get into filmmaking, teaching filmmaking and all that, correct?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah, just for clarification, I started it. I have never taken any donations with it so far.

 

Host Don

Okay, so, but the thing is this, but the kids that are being trained for this nonprofit are being skilled. You're using though these kids as labor, correct? For your for-profit film retreats.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

So every state has this thing called a youth program. Yes. And in Kentucky, what I do is I go down there and I tell them, this is what I'd like to do.

 

I'm gonna teach them multimedia. I'm gonna teach them filmmaking. And then each state will give a kid 480 hours worth of being paid.

 

I paid my kids $15, the state of Kentucky paid them. And then I mentored and trained them. Now I will tell anybody who's out there looking to do exactly what I did, probably out of those 480 hours, you're only gonna get about 200 hours because the kids require a lot of mentoring.

 

I mean, they usually come from families that aren't.

 

Host Don

Yeah, go ahead. No, you're fine.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

And so then what I did was I spent the last 40 hours of their time helping them put resumes together and getting them placed into colleges where two of them went, three of them went, one only made it a year, but she's back working with me and actually was a star in my natural movie, so.

 

Host Don

Well, I guess the big, as you can see from the chat stream, there's a lot of questions. And so we might take this a little out of order, a little bit disjointed, okay? Okay, I'll be blown with you.

 

I mean, we were very honest with you. I talked to you via PM. I was very open and honest with you and said you're gonna get asked a lot of tough questions.

 

And I think you knew what was coming. But I mean, I think the best thing to do is dive right in on something is you did a lot of Kickstarters. I did, yeah.

 

And you raised to the tune of almost $200,000. Go ahead, Tom.

 

Host Tom V

I just wanna ask for the record, because I'm not sure. How many Kickstarters did you do?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Total, I did seven. I fulfilled one of them under Ken Whitman Games. What we're probably gonna be talking about today is D20, which I believe if I- Well, we're gonna be talking about, not just D20, I mean, when you look at- They had six, D20 had six of them.

 

Host Don

Yeah, but the thing is, is either way, no matter if it was not, even if it was Ken Whitman himself or D20 Entertainment, Ken Whitman was still the man in charge, the man who got the money. Absolutely. And I think what a lot of people are, and I'm just gonna come right out and ask this, because this is like in the forefront of these comments, is you did all these Kickstarters to the tune of $186,000.

 

I totaled it up, okay? Almost $200,000 raised. And there's a lot of people that are going, where's my shit?

 

So my question is this, is you raise this money. I have a publishing company. I know that, like as an example, at least in Michigan, I'm required, when I raise money, to put money in escrow.

 

I do it for my gaming convention. What happened to the money, Ken? I mean, I should be blunt and throw it right out there to everybody.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

That's an absolutely fair question to ask. So I'm gonna do the best I can with it. So let's go over a few things that I'd like to cover, which is Nights at the Dinner Table.

 

Nights at the Dinner Table was actually shot, produced, created, on the three actual episodes. One's online. The other two was given to a zombie, I always say Orpheus, Zoe.

 

And they had it for two years. And I actually believe there are quotes online where he talks about receiving it on the KODT. And they did go ahead and release that for me.

 

The problem I have with Spinward Traveler, which we did film that, we actually showed Nights at the Dinner Table at Gen Con, all three episodes. And then we actually did show Spinward Traveler, the green screen edition, which means we didn't have the CGI for it yet, or the green screen taken out. They were created and produced.

 

Host Don

Here's the- You're saying, and I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm just trying to make sure I keep in line here with what's going on. So you're saying that, and we're gonna go through one of these at a time, through the Nights at the Dinner Table, you did fulfill that kickstart.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Okay, so here's the weird part. I'm not a very good businessman. I'm a very good creative person.

 

I'm a very good salesman. I'm not very good at contracts and business. And when I did that, I had to deal with Kinzer and company for one year to fulfill it.

 

I had no idea that it would take me longer than that. So one of the problems that I have is, I can't actually fulfill it without breaking copyright laws to Kinzer.

 

Host Don

I have asked if I could put the other ones- But Ken, in all fairness, then why did you begin a Kickstarter with something that you legally knew you could not fulfill? I didn't know it at the time.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I thought that we were gonna get it done and we would fulfill it within a year.

 

Erik Tenkar

All right, Ken, just to interject. Yes. I speak with Jolly frequently.

 

We knew this was gonna come up. And Jolly says that your contract would have been up once you fulfilled it, but you never fulfilled it. I'm just passing on what I was told.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Sure, and you know what? I have not seen that contract in a while. I'm gonna see if I can find that, but I'm pretty sure I had a date of completion.

 

Erik Tenkar

And if I'm wrong- You did. No, you did have a date of completion, but if you missed the date, you still had to complete the project. Now, I've been also told, if you need receipts for any conversations with Jolly, I can obtain them.

 

Sure. I don't want to put you on a spot here. No, no, go ahead.

 

What I'm telling you is, if you need to have your memory corrected, I can correct it for you down the line and maybe we'll- I would love that. But I'm telling you, I knew this question was gonna come up. I had a feeling I knew where it was gonna go.

 

And I made sure I spoke with Jolly about it ahead of time. So that's what I was told. Absolutely.

 

I didn't mean to interrupt the two of you, but I- No, no, no, no, that's fair.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

That's fair. And I will tell you guys that I have a lot of holes in my memory. So I don't mind.

 

And I've lost a lot of paperwork.

 

Host Don

But in all fairness, okay, what you've got is you've got a series of Kickstarter. And I'm gonna say something real quick. Kickstarters happen and something happens and you can't fulfill it.

 

Okay, shit happens. You break the news to your Kickstarter followers. But this wasn't just a Kickstarter.

 

You did this to a tune over several years and you've got a lot of Kickstarters. And again, I'll get right back to the beginning of this. And that is you've got $186,000 out there, Kent.

 

Where did that money go? I mean- I think, no, I'm not trying to be- No, let me ask the question, you can answer it.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Two years. I think all seven of them happened within two years. And just to let everyone know, I can start a Kickstarter anytime I want.

 

I've decided never to do it again.

 

Host Don

So, I mean, if I will- I mean, the thing is, is anybody can do a Kickstarter. I mean, I understand that, but I think what people are saying here is you have a large amount of people in here, Kent. Correct.

 

Correct. That are saying, I trusted you. I backed you, my friend.

 

And you went ahead and you didn't deliver nothing. And the questions that are being asked is, just a simple question is, you know- Well, here's something- Go ahead.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Something I don't know. Like I was told that Ben Dobbins sent out everybody in the Kickstarter because I provided him. Okay, who's Ben Dobbins and what Kickstarter?

 

Ben Dobbins is head of ZOE. And they created a DVD and sent to every Kickstarter for Nights at the Dinner Table with all three episodes. That is what I believe at this time.

 

I have never gotten proof that it is that.

 

Host Don

You know what? I want to highlight one comment here. And I think it's a comment that I think really nails it.

 

Jason Elliott says this. He says, Ken, honestly, Ken, the best thing you do right now is to make a sincere apology. Yes.

 

Which I think you're on here wanting to kind of make amends maybe. But, and a plan for reimbursing people for their money. Now, you have, a part of a Kickstarter is, and I do game design and game publishing, okay?

 

I manufacture games. We have our own equipment. I know the game.

 

You've been in the game too. I know it well. I do books.

 

I know about your POD operation. So my question is this, is there is a difference between saying I owe you $50 for product X, but how about I instead use my resources and get you product X? Have you ever thought about maybe trying to, at the very minimum, try to make amends by giving people the product they bought, or maybe try to get some type of payment, something worked out with people?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Okay. Well, the first thing is, I've been nearly homeless for two of the eight years. I have just now recently got up to where I pay myself less than $18,000.

 

Host Don

But how? You, this is my whole point. I go right back to my original question with you.

 

And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to get argumentative with you, but it's a question that, you know, we're playing almost like we're talking to Washington politicians here. You know, we walk around the subject. The core question is this, and that's why I'm starting right off the bat.

 

We're getting the bandaid off the wound a bit. You have raised $186,000.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes.

 

Host Don

Where did the money go?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

We spent it all on producing the product.

 

Host Don

Okay. So you spent it all on producing the product.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes.

 

Host Don

Well, that's great news that that means you have produced the product. It's sitting somewhere. Why don't you simply ship the product then?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

No, this is the problem. I believed that we could do it for that money. There's really, the problem was we got maybe 60% on some, 70% on some, 40% on some, and then ran out of money.

 

I mean, I was an idiot. I mean, I do apologize. I thought I could do it all on that amount of money.

 

Erik Tenkar

All right, Ken, I'm gonna ask you a question. All right, and this is a little bit from my background. With the funding from all those initial six products, all under D20 Entertainment.

 

Yes. You took money in for Pencil Dice. Was it allocated toward Pencil Dice?

 

Yes. Or was it put in a general fund?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Actually, yeah, all of it was put into the company fund.

 

Erik Tenkar

All right, so you didn't actually say, I took in X number of dollars for these 200 backers, and I'm gonna devote that money to, because I know Marcus King bought you an embosser for your pencils, I remember that. And I remember you were sending out pencils to some people. I remember that.

 

Yep. And then it stopped. All right, and now that was money that Marcus spent on you outside of the project, because you intermingled the money from the various projects and I'm gonna ask you another question going back to that time.

 

Okay. You went on a cruise. You had a car that was on some extended test drive loan for weeks.

 

Yes. Was this money that was raised for the Kickstarters that you were using for living expenses, because so many people at that time in this industry believe that money from Kickstarters was to pay them as opposed to fulfilling projects. So is that what happened?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Okay. So give me one second to collect my thoughts. That's a good question.

 

I'm going to answer that properly. D20 Entertainment had employees, including myself, that we all paid from the funds. The biggest one is the cruise, which is interestingly weird because I think I went on that on an all-inclusive cruise for $299 at that time.

 

And I took my girlfriend.

 

Host Don

But do you see though how that looks? Absolutely, I do. You have a Kickstarter.

 

You raised all this money in a Kickstarter. Yes. You do not deliver the Kickstarter, but now you're driving around a brand new car and you're going on a Caribbean cruise.

 

I don't know the semantics of it because I was not with you on the cruise, but do you see how that kind of looks to people?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I absolutely do. I mean, I understand that it looks like I had all this money and spent all this money, but I have never, since the time that we've done this, paid myself more than $18,000 a year. Currently I drive a 1994 Chevy.

 

Host Don

Now, let's talk finances here, okay? Now, I have my own POD operation. I can do books, I can do board games, I can do cards, I have all the equipment, okay?

 

I deal directly with China and Germany on my 320 GSM card stock and also on all my product, okay? So I know the back end of the business rather well, all right? Now, you had a POD book operation in Kentucky, correct?

 

Okay, in fact, is that how you met, that's how you met Larry Elmore, wasn't it? Because he hired you to help him with his- I met Larry Elmore when I was 18 years old. Okay, but you did work for Larry Elmore through your POD operation, correct?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah, I mean, originally I started working with him because I did Games Unplugged Magazine and I- Gotcha. And I redid Snarf Quest.

 

Host Don

Okay, but I guess my back end point to all this is this, is that, you know, you're not a dumb guy. You know business, okay? You have to know business to be able to set up a Kickstarter.

 

So when you go to set up this Kickstarter, and I'm just gonna pick on pencil dice, okay? Sure. All right, it applies to across the board, but you start off by saying, okay, I know how much this pen costs me.

 

Correct. All right, now I know how much I'm gonna retail this pen for. So what I do is I know how much, based upon how many Kickstarter supporters I have that I need to go ahead and supply, how much this is gonna cost me.

 

Correct. You have to know the basics because in order to figure out, you know what's gonna cost you. So when you start your Kickstarter, you go, you set a goal amount.

 

You have met your goal amounts. So when Kickstarter pumps that money into your bank account, now how I do it is that money goes into an escrow account. Now you did not, obviously.

 

So when you got that money, why didn't you take that money? And first things first is you go and you buy the product for your Kickstarter supporters. And then whatever's left over, and I'm gonna use a really weird, I know I'm gonna probably upset a few people, but that's your, let's have fun and go on a cruise, Mike.

 

But at the end of the day, there's a core amount of money though, Ken, that you have to have in order to supply your supply. See, that's my whole point. I get the fact that you said that you're not a very good businessman.

 

Okay, not everybody's a good numbers person, I get it. But at the same token, you did it once, you did it twice, you did it seven times and you knew people were getting mad. You knew you were pissing people off.

 

So was there somebody involved taking the money behind the scenes that nobody knows about? Were you the end money man? I mean, did you have a silent partner?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

No, I was the end money man. But the thing is, is when we're going back in time and it's easy to talk about it now, but this all happened over a two year period. And there are a lot of things that happened that I prefer not to talk about, mainly because it doesn't look good in the light for other people.

 

Host Don

And I'm not really- Keep my one thing, I'm gonna say something right here real quick. Yes. Ken, this is your chance to set the record straight.

 

We have a blasting amount of people watching this right now. Sure. We have a lot of people in active chat.

 

You know what? This is gonna be your chance to say, you know what? Good, bad, the ugly.

 

I'm coming on here. I agree to be honest. And this is just how it's gonna roll people and the facts of the facts.

 

Okay.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I mean, I can do that. I can pinpoint you the time when everything went bad for me. I know the exact date and the exact time.

 

Talk to us. So this is what happened. I didn't have a lot of contracts for things I was doing with Jolly.

 

We were planning on doing 99 Cents. We were gonna take all the actors. We were gonna take every one of the actual books and do all voice acting and sell little podcasts of all of that stuff.

 

When we shot Nights at the Dinner Table, we had actors that came from Seattle that were really good. And we paid them more than our local actors, which I had met at theater. These actors themselves, even though in our contracts there was, don't discuss what you're getting paid.

 

They decided, my local actors met me on the morning of the shoot and decided to say, you know, my grandmother died and I'm not gonna be able to film and I don't know what we should do about it. And of course I knew what had happened. So I suggested to them that, okay, I would pay them.

 

What would happen? They were gonna walk out. They were gonna go to his grandmother's funeral.

 

So I was basically being blackmailed. So I agreed to pay them what the other actors got paid. End of story.

 

So what ended up happening then was I said, look, guys, I need to raise some more money to pay you what you need to be paid. And one of the actors, I said, I'm gonna need like 30 to 90 days. On day 30, I get a call from somebody's wife.

 

Who asked me why somebody hasn't been paid.

 

Host Don

And- Okay, I'm just gonna push you. Tell me to, you know, go fuck myself, mind my own business. But who?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Oh, it was Jolly Blackburn's wife. And when I told her that I needed time to pay him because we didn't have the money, she basically called me everything but a white man and told me that if I didn't pay him that day, that the shit was gonna go bad for me. So I said, the only money I got is for the CDs to pay the actors.

 

And so that's what happened. About three days later, Jolly called me up and said, hey, everything's going great. I go, yep, here they are.

 

And he said, what do you think about doing more? And I said, I would, but I probably don't wanna deal with your wife because I don't like getting cursed at.

 

Host Don

And- Well, what's really interesting in here, I just gotta say something real quick, is Barbara Blackburn is in here. That's fine.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

She can say that whether she did it or not, but I know what happened. And then afterwards, within 24 hours, everything was shut down. I was no longer being able to do anything.

 

And that was pretty much the end of the whole project. And I had already had way over budget on all of this. And I was basically told that it is what it is.

 

Go ahead, Tom, go ahead.

 

Host Tom V

I just wanted to say, there's a lot of comments. I've been trying to read a lot of the side comments and then double check some stuff on the side here. And I think I'd like to try to cut through some of this because it sounds like we're going in circles around the Mowbray Bush.

 

And you say you wanna come on and make amends. And I am all for that. David Copperfield said that the prodigal son was the most sublime story in the English language.

 

And I love second chances. I love people getting redemption. But part of making amends is that you make restitution.

 

And is there, I mean, we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in Kickstarters raised. I don't know if that's a possible, but what are you going to do? Because a lot of people in the comments are saying, just his men smells like excuses and bullshit.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Just- Yeah, and that's exactly what I, I mean, I understand their point. I agree with a lot of things.

 

Host Don

I guess the thing I have a problem with here, okay? Is there's one thing I don't see here. Okay, I have personally asked you a lot of very direct questions, okay?

 

And I have yet to hear you go, and I'm gonna use some, sorry, this is not safe for case language here. But I have yet to hear you go, you know what guys, I fucked up. I owe people money.

 

And you know what, I owe these people. Because this is the thing. It doesn't matter who is mean to you.

 

It doesn't matter who talked bad to you. At the end of the day, you were entrusted with a lot of money. Correct.

 

And at this point, you're telling people, I don't know what I did with the money because I'm a bad businessman. And I get the bad businessman.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes, understood. Now, realize this guys. I could go back up anytime.

 

From the time we started to now. My moral values is trying to get these done.

 

Host Don

But the thing is, okay, stop, I gotta stop here. Moral values, I get it, but the thing is, is for Christ's sakes, you know, Ken, we're not talking something that happened six months ago and you haven't had a chance to get your plan formulated. This has been a fuck around and find out since 2013.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I appreciate that. Do you know, I was homeless for two years. My children haven't talked to me in nine years.

 

I have lived in a car for a year and a half. I get it, man. All the people on here made sure I didn't have jobs.

 

Host Don

All right, no, no, no, you did, you did, hold on.

 

Erik Tenkar

Hold on, I'm stepping in, I'm stepping in. People on here made sure you didn't get jobs? I've had two death threats.

 

Ken, Ken, no, no, Ken, Ken, do me a favor. We've let you talk, all right? I'm the one who you threatened to call, yo, you didn't threaten to call the FBI.

 

You call the FBI on me and they're gonna wait on my doorstep.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Shut up.

 

Erik Tenkar

Shut up for a minute. I've heard enough of your shit and I'm tired of it. You gotta listen for once.

 

Okay, go ahead. You gotta listen, all right? I had to inform my commanding officer that supposedly I was being investigated by the FBI because of some knucklehead on the internet who was in the midst of essentially doing a pyramid scheme with Kickstarter.

 

And because I was covering that, the FBI was gonna be on my doorstep. So you and I don't have a great history. Why you wanted me on here, I'm not quite sure.

 

But I'm gonna bring up a few dangerous facts to you. Hold on. D20 Entertainment was never incorporated, was it?

 

No, it wasn't. It never existed. It was doing business as, correct?

 

Host Tom V

Am I correct?

 

Erik Tenkar

No, it absolutely existed. It was never, it was, I don't believe it was ever incorporated. You were doing business as.

 

That means that you are personally responsible for all these debts. So yes. Number one.

 

You could go bankrupt. You could certainly do that. But if you did, nobody would do business with you.

 

So that's why you haven't.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, the answer is, is it was incorporated.

 

Erik Tenkar

It was, really?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes.

 

Erik Tenkar

Why are you supposed to tell me it wasn't? Or did you incorporate it after you started doing business?

 

Host Don

No, I mean. Okay, I guess I wanna say something real quick, okay? Look, the bottom line is this, all right?

 

There's one, okay. I will say this. I understand shit gets late, okay?

 

I understand shit happens. I am on the back end of the manufacturing. I get it.

 

I understand things happen with suppliers, with customs, all that good stuff. But you made a comment here a few moments ago that Ken, I'm just gonna have to let Eric call you out on. There is not one person in this chat, there is not one person who funded one of your Kickstarters that did this to you.

 

No, you're right. The only thing these people did. Well, hold on.

 

The only thing these people did, Ken, and I'm talking level-headed, I'm not yelling at you. The only thing these people did was they entrusted you.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

They did.

 

Host Don

They gave you their money. And the problem that I have with all of this is this, is that it's not the fact that you did not deliver the Kickstarters. It's not the fact that you had an issue, okay?

 

This all revolves right back down to one sweeping circle and you said it yourself. You have, I think, the inability to be personally culpable for your own actions. You're blaming other people.

 

Host Tom V

But you just said it.

 

Host Don

But Ken, you just said it. You said, you blamed it.

 

Host Tom V

He's been trying to make amends. But how? Do you not still have that pencil embosser?

 

Why hasn't the pencil?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes, we have a pencil embosser.

 

Host Tom V

And you can make 100 an hour. Why haven't you done something with it?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Because I have to make a living first.

 

Host Don

It takes- Yes, it takes money to make stuff. I understand that, okay? But what, again, I'm gonna go right back to my original question that has yet to be answered.

 

Yes. What happened to $186,000? You obviously did not buy the cruise with it because you paid $299 for that.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yes.

 

Host Don

You obviously didn't buy a car with it because that was only on loan and you're driving some older car now. Okay, you weren't paying rent with it because you were homeless. So what happened to $186,000?

 

For Christ's sakes, my friend, we're not talking about, you know, $50,000. All right, understood.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

The Nights at the Dinner Table probably went over budget by double. The Spinward Traveler went over budget because, you know, there's a reason why movies cost millions of dollars. You know, I suffered from the Dun and Kurgan.

 

I thought I knew what I was doing. I thought I would, with all the knowledge of making games, I thought I knew how I could make movies. And I didn't.

 

I failed. I was under budget. I went way over budget.

 

Host Don

And then when everything- So the Kickstarter money, and I'm trying to kind of keep up to this as it goes. So pretty much what you're saying is the Kickstarter money went to fund other projects that went over budget and you kind of got behind on that. And it was a cascading freaking mess.

 

Yep.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Now I did spend $15,000 on pencil dice from China. And when I got them, I promised that I'd have all of them done with foil stamp. The prototypes that they sent me were good.

 

When I got the base shipment, they did foil on three sides and they could not do foil on the other three. So they sent me silkscreen for the other three.

 

Host Don

And- So they sent you a product that was inferior to what you thought you were gonna be delivering. Correct. Okay.

 

So why did you send those out? It's something.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, the thing was is at the time, I believed that it had to be all foil stamped.

 

Host Don

Okay. So where are these dice at right now? I mean, I imagine there's people that bought it would just say, hey, listen, man, you know what?

 

Just give me anything, I'll be happy.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, the answer to that was during my multiple moves in my homeless, I left a bunch of stuff with one of my friends and including drives that ended up getting burnt. Now I did since then have re-bought all the pencils. I have 100, 200,000 of them.

 

I have 100,000 pencils. It's just gonna take me time to get them all created.

 

Host Don

But the thing is, this doesn't make sense to me because what you're basically saying is that you have all the dice, you have the tools and equipment now, and it was just gonna take you a long time to do it. So my question for you is this, is why did you not, why not in the last year, why not in the last five years start just making pencil dice and shipping them as you got them?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, the answer to that is you need to, for me to finish up everything manually with the equipment I have, if I worked 40 hours a week, would take a year and a half. You have to have a job.

 

Host Don

You have to be able to- Oh, oh, oh, believe me, I get it.

 

Host Tom V

You gotta make money to live, but on the same token- I'm just saying that you shouldn't put food on the table. You should pay your bills. You should have a job.

 

But 40 hours is not the whole week. And we all have hobbies and stuff we do on the side. Saturdays for mowing the lawn, screw the lawn, make a few pencils.

 

You know, I have actually- Because it comes right back to, it sounds like a lot of excuses, Ken, and- It does sound like a lot of excuses, and I completely understand that.

 

Host Don )

Okay, let's do this. Let's step away here. The dice are what they are.

 

K-O-D-T is what it is. But let's talk now about, what about Dice-O-Matic? Because Dice-O-Matic, you raised, you were gonna raise and they canceled us.

 

Let's meet back up. Let me back off that. So then you get into Deck Dice.

 

You raised $5,197 on Deck Dice, and you were actually, wasn't that actually, or the pencil, or whatever, wasn't that actually taken from a guy by the name of Sebastian Barjang? Because your Kickstarter used language that was verbatim from his Deck Dice. It was verbatim, like literally, I mean, I compared the two.

 

Literally, you take them, they were lined up verbatim, and his fundraiser was an entire year and a half before yours. So you were, I guess my question is, is that that right there, you raised $38,161 off that project. On which one?

 

The Pencil Dice. Oh yeah, Pencil Dice, yes. And that was actually taken, that was a Kickstarter that you did that you raised 31 grand on, and that was actually, the Kickstarter language was a verbatim language from Sebastian Barjang.

 

Matter of fact, I reached out to Sebastian, okay? And I asked him about this, and his comment was, and I'm gonna read this reply to you verbatim. Okay.

 

He says, it's not the fact that he took my idea. I understand people take ideas and move on. However, that man utterly destroyed me.

 

He destroyed me by people associated his project with mine. I have never been late delivering a project. And what he did was, is when I had the audacity to ask him to please stop it, he threatened me along with the FBI, he threatened to take me to court and bankrupt me.

 

And then when I confronted him further, he went ahead and threatened me of physical violence. And by the way, he sent me a screenshot of your message to him. You threatened to beat the ever-loving shit out of that guy.

 

Now, I understand that was back in the day. Now, you have indicated before that you suffered some type of traumatic brain injury, correct?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

The answer to that is, I have been to the hospital for memory loss. I scored four out of five. They wanted to do more stuff.

 

Four out of five of what? I don't know what you mean. That's all they told me.

 

For my age, I answered four out of the five things correctly. They wanted to do more research, but of course I'm poor, so I don't have the money to do that. But you were diagnosed with what?

 

E something? What was it? No, I was never diagnosed with CTE.

 

They wanted, they believed that because I played college football and I've had about 3,200.

 

Host Don

Wait a minute, wait a minute, CTE? Yes. Wait a minute, CTE, that is only diagnosable, Eric, you did research on that.

 

After you die, correct.

 

Erik Tenkar

Yeah, it has to be an autopsy. And Ken, you're the one, you yourself, I can go back to my records and pull it up, I won't be for this show, that claimed that your issues were because you were suffering from CTE and were gonna be treated for it. I remember this because I remember going, the man's alive, I've seen a video on this, and I know it's only diagnosed upon death.

 

So, Ken, you have to forgive me if my 20 years in law enforcement, my 12 years in internal affairs, I have a bullshit meter, all right? I do have a bullshit meter, all right? It's not quite Spidey sense, it's a bit more accurate.

 

And you, my personal opinion, okay? And I can't speak for my compatriots here, but you've been spewing a little truth and a lot of shit, all right? And I don't know why.

 

Now, I'd like to ask you a very important question. Okay. Why the fuck are you here?

 

What is it that brought you out here? Because it isn't about redemption, Ken. All right?

 

And if you're telling us you can do a Kickstarter at the drop of a hat. Yes. This Kickstarter was not gonna know that you didn't fulfill your last six because it was a different company that did or did not exist.

 

You're out of your mind, personally. My personal opinion, because your reputation, such as it is, and it's not because of anybody on the screen, it's because of you. Your reputation precedes you.

 

And I've spoken to people in the film industry where you've worked. I spoke with a woman a couple of years ago out in Atlanta who was doing your laundry, cooking for you. She did not have nice things to say about you, but it wasn't relevant at the time for me to do anything more than put it into my file.

 

But people that you interact with generally feel that they were taken advantage of. All right? That is the general feeling.

 

All your backers feel that you were taken advantage of. You have pencils, you have an embosser, and you can't take out 30 minutes a day to do anything to fulfill your backers. You're not here to...

 

Your apologies don't mean anything without actions. Okay? Absolutely.

 

You are not taking any action. Coming on this show is not an act of redemption. It's an act of you trying to...

 

Under the illusion of trying to make amends, you are blaming things on other people. I know Barbara Blackburn. I know that the words that you said about a child of hers, when I heard what you said, it fucking floored me.

 

And you've never apologized for it because I've been told that you never have apologized for it. And that shocks me. For somebody who's looking for redemption, somebody who's here saying, hey, I'm throwing my sins on the table.

 

Please forgive me. I'd like to make amends. That's the person you should be making amends to before anybody else.

 

You're absolutely right. Barbara, if you're listening... She's not.

 

She's only tired of listening to what she said. In the chat, there's shit coming out of your mouth.

 

Host Don

Let me throw this in there real quick, okay? All right? Let's take a deep breath.

 

Pause for a moment. And let's just take this very clinically, all right? All right.

 

Knight's Quest. Let's just do this one at a time. No bullshit, no arguing, no yelling at you.

 

Host Tom V

Knight's Quest. Let me back you up a minute because Eric asked a question. He didn't get answered and he actually stole my question I was gonna ask.

 

Nobody's buying the excuses in the chat, okay? And so I'm looking at your career. Whitman Productions taken over by your investors.

 

There's just one after another business, irrespective of the Kickstarters, that's all under a storm. And Elmore Productions, the fastest way to get ghosted by Elmore is to bring your name up and he's done talking to you. So there's a lot of dirt there.

 

And you said it yourself, you're not a good businessman. You're a good idea guy. You're a good promoter.

 

You're very charismatic. You're a good talker. What I'm really curious and what Eric asked, but then he thought quite a bit was, what do you hope to accomplish here tonight?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

You know, that's a good question. I'm not here to try to change anybody's opinion of me. I've actually had a lot of personal growth.

 

And I would like to apologize to everybody, especially Barbara. Things that I wanna say is, This is your chance, Ken.

 

Host Don

You're on here. We have 100 people plus watching this right now. This is it, buddy.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

The problem, going back in the past and dissecting everything. Number one, I have holes in my memory. Now here's the thing.

 

I did say horrible things to people. I absolutely regret. Absolutely regret things that I said.

 

However, I do wanna say, it's not like I just bipolarly started yelling and screaming at people. There is things that bring things up.

 

Host Don

I don't wish to talk about them. Well, let me ask you this question. We'll keep it very easy then.

 

Wendy Lord is in here, okay? I do not know Wendy personally. I know Wendy's name from online.

 

She's a big gamer. She's very involved in the gaming community for what I've seen. And Wendy says this.

 

She says, I lost money on three of his Kickstarters, grr. Okay, you are in a room alone with Wendy right now. What do you wanna say to Wendy Lord about these three Kickstarters which she entrusted you, Ken, with her money, her faith?

 

There's a basic premise among gamers. Everybody's welcome at the table, okay? There's a premise among gamers.

 

You know what? We don't give a shit what your fucking politics are, what your religion is. Let's game and have fun.

 

But there's one thing gamers can't abide by is getting fucked over by a fellow gamer. So here's Wendy looking at you going, Ken, I lost money on three of your Kickstarters. What do you say to her?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Wendy, I can't change the past. I apologize for everything that has happened. I messed up a tremendous amount.

 

I'm still trying. I'm not for sure, and I'm not gonna make promises of when it will happen. I'm gonna do my best to reach out to everybody, continue down the road of trying to get these done while I focus on my growth and getting everything done with the films that I'm releasing.

 

There's no reason for anyone to believe me. Other than a track record, I have actually released one movie. Another one's coming out.

 

Host Don

I have six more coming out. But these movies take a lot of money to put together and to get out there. Correct.

 

Okay? Why are you not then going something, and maybe I don't understand the movie business. I've never made a movie, okay?

 

But why are you not saying, hey, a portion of all my profits are gonna go to the X Fund, which is gonna go to get these, not the Kickstarters fulfilled, because you can't produce product you no longer can produce, but at least to say, you know what, Wendy, I may have sat there and screwed you over for 300 bucks, but I'm at least gonna try to give you 100 bucks of it, just something to get you back.

 

And that's the thing I have a problem with you right now, Ken. Before this video, we talked on PM, and you were adamant that, you know, Don, I know the question is gonna ask, I wanna make amends. I really wanna make this right with people.

 

But I tell you, Ken, I have not heard that. All I've heard is you come in here and go, I was a bad businessman. And the reason why this happens is because of those people, your words, not mine.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah.

 

Host Don

And the thing is, these people, only thing these people did was they looked at Ken Whitman, D20 Entertainment or whatever, and said, you know what, I'm gonna trust this man with my hard-earned money. And when it wasn't delivered, instead of getting, guys, I fucked up. I get, they get instead, well, it's your fault.

 

You don't understand how tough this business is. I do. You know what happens when-

Host Tom V

People want you to take responsibility.

 

That's where all this anger in the chat is. Okay, so- Wait a minute, let me help you out here. Okay.

 

It's, you know, it's about making, restitution's about making amends. It's about making somebody whole. And, you know, you're probably not gonna be able to do the biblical restitution, which was if you stole one sheep from somebody, you had to return four.

 

You know, it was four times the amount. You probably can't do that. I don't think you can.

 

But, you know, there's, it just doesn't seem to be, and Wampler said it in a comment. He says, let me help you out here, Ken. Go back to step one and start there.

 

You know, it's really, you know, we talk about the 12 steps. They use it for a lot of different things besides sobriety. But you really, you need to get, say, listen, I fucked up.

 

You've got to do the mea culpa. You seem to be trying to do that, but it's all the excuses kind of undo anything you've done. And until people see some real amends, not excuses, nobody's gonna trust you.

 

Nobody's going, nobody's gonna forgive you.

 

Host Don

That's part of the- I have a question to ask Ken real quick. Taking all this stuff off, move this out of the way. So, Ken, besides movie making right now, what are your current game projects you're developing?

 

I mean, what do you got in kind of in mind, anything flowing, anything kind of in the plans or works or anything? Not Kickstarters. I'm talking about just general.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, here's the deal, guys. I make games all the time. It's my hobby.

 

It's not what I do. I don't even publish them. I've got probably 12 to 14 unpublished games that I'm sitting on.

 

I have contemplated, reached out to people to take the movie stuff that I'm doing and making RPGs with them. I think Unnatural would be a good RPG for somebody. I mean, the whole reason I got into movies was when I was making role-playing games, I always thought, you know, maybe one day some movie company would come and find one of our products and make a movie out of it.

 

Well, now that I'm on this end of it, all that I've realized is that movies are nothing more than very large commercials used to sell your product and merchandise, right? Well, I am probably 24 months away from even having a profit off of anything that I'm doing. I am barely making a living right now and have to stretch out another 24 months before I see any profits from a film.

 

Host Tom V

You know, let me just spitball a solution here for you. You love writing games, you're a game designer, I get that. I think all of us here on the screen have the same itch.

 

You know, your publish, why not just write something and put it up POD, use a pen name like Mark Twain did because kind of Ken Whitman is kind of mud in the gaming sector. So use a pen name and, but set it up so that any profit that comes in from that goes to a escrow fund. You know, I mean, I bet Eric or Don would love to help you set up some sort of an escrow fund where that money is only gonna go.

 

Erik Tenkar

Rest assured. Keeping out of this part, thank you.

 

Host Tom V

All right, well, no, I just spitball.

 

Host Don

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but bottom line is this, is Tom, you know, this is the thing, is, you know, he doesn't even, I mean, this is the thing. He doesn't even have to have somebody backing him. All he has to do, and Ken, this is something you could do.

 

You could go ahead and you could like take some of your game ideas that you have because we all have them flowing. I mean, let's face it, like Tom said, we all have the itch. God knows I have a really big itch.

 

But the thing is, what you could do is you could say, I'm gonna start a drive-through RPG account and I'm gonna every month, I'm gonna post my RPG drive-through statement and I'm gonna go ahead and I'm going to put this into a escrow trust fund and I'm gonna every month just start slinging a few bucks here and there to people. You'll never pay people back, A, number one. You're never gonna pay people back for what you own.

 

But the thing is, is this, at the end of the day, what you could do is you could try, but the problem with all this is, and you said it yourself, Ken, okay? And I don't mean this in a combative way, I don't mean to be this in a demeaning way, okay? But like you just said about 45 minutes ago, it's all of them that caused this.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

It wasn't them that caused this. But you said that. And see, first of all- I did say that because for a second, I got angry.

 

And I apologize for that.

 

Host Don

It's those moments, it's moments of anger that show the true ocularity of our actions.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah, I mean, there are still a lot of things, guys, that I'm dealing with in counseling and coping. Now, there's a lot of things up there on the internet about me. There's also a lot of things that aren't up there.

 

Host Don

Like, for instance- Oh, come on. I mean, first of all, you know what? The internet is what it is.

 

People can put anything they want on the flippin' internet. Hell, there's a guy running around right now that says I was arrested this morning in Battle Creek, Michigan and put in jail. Literally, no, he tweeted that this morning.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Oh, I guess that's just something you're saying.

 

Host Don

No, it's just a fucking idiot from North Carolina. But the point is, bottom line is this. Anybody can post anything.

 

But you know what? The difference is this, is I operate under my own actions. I know what I owe people.

 

And when someone gives me money, I don't care what the shipping up charges are. I don't care if product costs changed. If they bought that product for 39.95 and it costs me now 49.95, guess what? They're getting it for 39.95. That's basic, practical, honorable business sense.

 

Host Don

And you know what? Like you said before, you used an excuse before in one of your Kickstarter, you said the shipping charges tripled. That is total unmitigated, sorry, bullshit, because in my many years of doing business and shipping, I've seen shipping jump a couple bucks, 50 cents, but I've never seen shipping jump triple.

 

Now I know what you were doing. You were attempting at that time to mitigate the problem that you backed yourself into, the corner, I get it. But again, all of this talk tonight now for one hour, all of this chat that we've been having now for 57 minutes has revolved around one thing.

 

Ken, how many chance do we have to give you? Admit you fucked up, but also just simply say, this is why I did it, this is where the money went. Again, I'll ask again for the, I'm keeping track the 11th time.

 

Ken, I'll ask you bluntly, $187,000. Can you show where any of that money went? You mean like an accounting?

 

My friend, if I had $187,000, I could tell you generically where it went. Like, did you buy equipment with it? Did you buy, because this is the thing, in the printing business, if you gave me $187,000 right now, I could buy a whole lot of printing equipment and game making equipment.

 

Oh, absolutely. So where did the money go? Because like you said, you don't have a car, you didn't go on an expensive cruise, you didn't have a home, you're homeless.

 

So if you're no vehicle, no home, and you have $187,000 out there, where did it go?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

You know, that's a fair question. I'll tell you what I will do. I will backtrack through.

 

Host Don

It helps us, and then right here, I know you're gonna say, you're giving the typical Republican, Democrat, politician response. Let me circle back to that, and I'll get the records and I'll let you know.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I will tell you this, less than $20,000 went into my pocket, and everything else went into trying to create what we did.

 

Host Don

Okay, so $170,000, okay, ballpark, $150,000. Yes. Went into getting this product made, correct?

 

Correct. Okay, where's the product?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, the three of the nights of the dinner table got produced and went to Zoey. How much was that, ballpark? $60,000, $70,000.

 

Host Don

Okay, so what I'm looking at though, and I'm gonna pull this up real quick. When I'm looking though at the list, the nights of the dinner table was $69,925, so it falls right in line with what you just said. Yeah.

 

So, okay, let's take that out, nights of the dinner table, but what about night's quest? Let's spin word traveler, castles and crusades, pencil dice, RPG pencil dice, and deck dice.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Okay. Night's quest got fulfilled. It's the one that actually happened.

 

Host Don

Okay, so for $9,234, that's fulfilled. Angels sing, amen, happy days. So now out of 180,000, we are talking now you're down to a hundred grand cold hard cash for, let's just do this, let's break it down one by one.

 

What about spin word traveler? That was $49,588.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Spin word traveler, we started writing the scripts for it and we did not get through. I think that's when everything went bad. So I probably spent somewhere in our neighborhood at about $10,000 getting that ready to go.

 

Okay.

 

Host Don

What's next? Well, I mean, if you're gonna go right on down the list, we can keep this real brief cause I know it's getting late. I know that.

 

Castles and crusades for six grand.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

We actually filmed that one. It cost me about 15,000. Okay, but it's filmed.

 

It's filmed. I gave it to a Troll Lord games. It was not what they wanted.

 

They had never released it.

 

Host Don

Okay. So you fulfilled castles and crusades, did what you're supposed to. You gave it to Troll Lord games.

 

Troll Lord looked at it and said, oh, this is not what we want. Correct?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Correct. And I have asked, I had said that I would redo that for them.

 

Host Don

Okay. So at least that's on the record. So that's on, so you're saying that's on castles, or excuse me, that's on castles and crusades, or Troll Lord games.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, it's still on me because I'm the one who's supposed to deliver it.

 

Host Don

Okay. But have they told you what they wanted done with it? They have, yes.

 

Okay. When was this?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Probably after I produced the one that I gave them. How long ago?

 

Host Don

Oh man, that had to be seven or eight years ago. Okay. So seven or eight years ago, you gave it to them.

 

They looked at it and said, we don't like this. This is what we want instead. And you have it back, right?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah.

 

Host Don

I mean, I still have it. Okay. So for seven, eight years, what have you done with it?

 

Why haven't you done what they wanted?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, when you don't have any money, you can't do anything.

 

Host Don

Well, me sitting in front of my computer cost me nothing except an electric bill. Yes. You know, what about RPG pencil dice?

 

And I have one more for that. And like I said, I know it's getting really late for people, but let me back up. Let's just do this.

 

You know what? I think the bottom line is this. I think at the end of the day, you know, I just think, Ken, what you need to do is, I really think you need to really stop, take a look inward and realize you're hurting a lot of people.

 

I am.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

You are. And I apologize for that.

 

Host Don

I mean, it's great that you come on here and you apologize, okay? But there's a lot of people in here going, we appreciate the apology, but we've heard this before. Where is everything that's going on?

 

Where is stuff at? I mean, let me, okay, to end this, Ken, the interview is done. Thank you for coming on.

 

But let me ask you this question. What are your plans, if any, to make amends to these people? What do you want to do here?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Well, you actually, you guys actually gave me some good ideas about taking things that I have already done and being able to put them out there and put them towards a fund for people. I like that idea. Secondly, I have learned from my past that if you make promises that you don't know when they're going to come to fruition, they're just more broken promises.

 

My plans are still to fulfill these Kickstarters. I cannot give you times or deadlines because right now I'm just trying to survive and make money so that I can try to fulfill them in the future.

 

Host Tom V

Other than that- Can I ask a question?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yeah.

 

Host Tom V

Because I don't think anybody in the comments just on the tone of their comments, they're going to accept that answer. But why don't you take a year to marinate on this and maybe pursue some of this and come back to us in a year and say, all right, you guys challenged me, here's what I've been able to do.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

And- I think that's a good idea, actually.

 

Host Tom V

You know, I mean, if the other people on the show are not in favor of that, I will have you on my show and let you say, all right, this is what I've done, this is what I've been able to raise, and this is how much I've been able to pay back to these people.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I think that's a good idea.

 

Host Tom V

Because I do like a redemption story, but dude, you've got to do something. It can't be taught.

 

Host Don

Yeah, and the thing is, you going on here, you attacking Barbara Blackburn. I didn't attack her, I told you the exact truth of what happened.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

You asked me what happened, I told you what happened.

 

Host Don

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, we asked you a question and you answered it, I got you back. So, all right, well, let's do this. It is nine o'clock, we usually run until nine o'clock here on the blog of many things.

 

I know it was a tough hour for you. It is. Okay, we appreciate you coming on.

 

I'm gonna make an offer right now in front of everybody in here. If you think about this for a week or two, and you start coming up with ideas, how you plan on doing this, then I'll have you back on and I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll mute my mic and I'll let you at the floor and you can just say, this is what I'm gonna do, ladies and gentlemen, to start making this right.

 

Maybe it's not to make it right with everybody, but at least there'll be some start. So that's the offer I have on the table. If you wanna take it, it's in front of everybody.

 

Fair enough?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Yep, I appreciate it. And I do wanna end it with this if it's all right. Sure.

 

Eric, I really do apologize for being a dumb shit.

 

Erik Tenkar

Well, you know what? I don't have to take your fucking apology.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

You do not have to.

 

Erik Tenkar

Okay, I went through fucking hell because of you.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I know, I understand.

 

Erik Tenkar

So, and if you think I am a person that's pissed off at you, I am nothing compared to some others.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

Understood.

 

Erik Tenkar

Others got screwed out of money. I got screwed on a more personal level, but people put their faith in you. And you know what?

 

I know this is the beginning of a redemption tour. That's the way I'm looking at it. And I'll be honest with you.

 

You've dug yourself such a deep fucking hole that you're gonna take a long time to get out of this if you ever do, all right? And the first way you're gonna get out of that is to actually apologize to people. Not find excuses.

 

And if you can't crank out 50 pencils a day and take a little bit less time on the shitter, there's an issue, all right? You can't tell me you have these pencils you spent $15,000 on, and you can't crank out 10 pencils a day. You have to look at yourself.

 

You're not. You're looking at everybody else and you're looking to find the reasons why you're not accomplishing as opposed to accomplishing. But I'm done.

 

I'm done.

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

That was fair. I appreciate what you said. All right.

 

Host Don

Well, Ken, again, thank you very much for coming on, okay? Like I said, we knew it was gonna be a tough hour. Offer's still open.

 

If you figure out what you wanna do and you have a realistic plan, you wanna get on a broadcast and say, everybody, this is what I'm gonna do, you're welcome to it, all right?

 

Ken “Whit” Whitman

I appreciate the offer. I think I will show back up again when I have things to show.

 

Host Don

Okay. Ken, again, thank you for tuning in. Thanks for coming on, okay?

 

Thank you, Steve. And we'll talk to you later, all right?

 

Host Tom V

Thanks to all the commenters.