That's a lot of time & effort on one guy, but at the end of the decade day we do this so Kenny doesn't get to freely leech off of our community (everyone involved with NAD are gamers) yet again. When Kenny resurfaces to run what we perceive to be a new scam, we want anyone willing to put even a modicum of effort into a quick Google search to find out some important background on him.
We have ALWAYS told our readers that they shouldn't just blindly take our word on the nature of Ken "Whit" Whitman's character, but to read everything they can and to make their own informed decision. A big problem is that our main man has frequently said/did stuff online, especially on social media, and then scrubbed things the best he can. Whenever possible we've provided direct links to his words and actions and if you see an inactive link...well that's probably what happened.
This is why information from outside sources is so valuable, like the interview Ken did last week. It's just two posts earlier than this posting, but since this is going to be a long post, and we don't do post breaks here, it might be useful to re-share the video.
The transcript starts from Ken's initial introduction to his departure. There is more to the end of the interview where the hosts discuss what just happened, but you can watch the video if that interests you....
Main Editor's Note: This was run through some transcription software and still needs some edits, but we needed to get this out sooner rather than later. It shouldn't be hard to understand what is actually being said and if we get the chance we will be cleaning it up for future use.
Host Don
Ken, again, thank you for coming on the show.
I know this is kind of like a first thing for you, first time coming on a show
like this. Yeah, it's been a long time coming, right?
Yep, it's a big step for it, we understand
that. So I guess what we'll do is we'll just kind of dive right in, how's that?
Sounds great.
All right, real quick, I'm gonna just kind of
start off the show with something is, I may use language like notorious, things
like that, I don't mean it in negative, but let's face it, I mean, a lot of
people know about you.
Host Tom V
There's some variety, yeah.
Host Don
Yep, you got no variety with you. So let me
ask you this question is, what made you decide to finally come out, talk about
things, be agreeable to answer questions and come on the show?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, first of all, I wanna say to everybody,
I apologize for a lot of my past actions from years ago. Probably about, and if
I seem stressed out, I actually really am, because this is important to me to
be on here and talk with you guys. I know you're gonna do hard questions.
I'm gonna do my best to answer them. I have, I
spent all day making sheets so that I can remember things correctly. And once
again, if I take time to look at something to make sure that I say the right
things, understand it's just, this is kind of stressful for me.
I'm gonna do my best to tell you my version of
the truth. And even if that means that I admit that I am the villain in a lot
of people's stories, and I was, and probably rightfully so, I was. And I admit
to doing a whole lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't have done.
But I would say about three years ago, I kind
of probably not just hit rock bottom. It took me a long time, but that was the
time when I decided to really take accountability for everything. And I know
it's gonna sound strange, but I kind of gave it to the universe, gave it to
God, whatever you wanna say.
And I was gonna quit and I was just gonna go
do something. I don't know what I was gonna do. But the one thing that I've
always said is if you're depressed, volunteer.
If you're lost, take on responsibility. And so
I went down because I had worked with kids who have barriers of entry into the
workforce. And the only thing that they cared about was that I worked on
Dungeons and Dragons and that I made movies.
So it's almost like the universe gave it back
to me and said, here, now help these kids. Now this is your nonprofit, right?
That is my nonprofit, it is.
And I use that along with films I make. I'm in
the process of trying to be a post-secondary school to teach filmmaking to
kids. And that's where I'm headed with everything.
In the last three years, I've taught five kids
and I've helped four of them get into college. And to me, I'm using my
creativity to make movies right now but I hope one day that I'll be teaching
kids how to write and how to do their own stuff because technology is changing.
You can actually pick up your iPhone right now and make a movie if you actually
know what you're doing.
And so that answers the long about way of why
I'm here today. And again, thank you guys for letting me come on.
Host Don
Well, I mean, I think as you can see from the
chat, we have the chat separated, it's in stream. So everybody that's talking,
no matter what channel that they're on, whether they're on Eric's, Tom's or
mine, they're coming up in here. We're not gonna be able to keep up with the
chat.
I'll tell you that right now, it is so active
right now. But we're gonna pull comments out of the chat. We're not cherry
picking it.
I'm just grabbing them as I can grab them
between us talking. So it's not trying to target you or nothing. But you
mentioned your nonprofit, okay?
Now your nonprofit is the one that helps kids
get into filmmaking, teaching filmmaking and all that, correct?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah, just for clarification, I started it. I
have never taken any donations with it so far.
Host Don
Okay, so, but the thing is this, but the kids
that are being trained for this nonprofit are being skilled. You're using
though these kids as labor, correct? For your for-profit film retreats.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
So every state has this thing called a youth
program. Yes. And in Kentucky, what I do is I go down there and I tell them,
this is what I'd like to do.
I'm gonna teach them multimedia. I'm gonna
teach them filmmaking. And then each state will give a kid 480 hours worth of
being paid.
I paid my kids $15, the state of Kentucky paid
them. And then I mentored and trained them. Now I will tell anybody who's out
there looking to do exactly what I did, probably out of those 480 hours, you're
only gonna get about 200 hours because the kids require a lot of mentoring.
I mean, they usually come from families that
aren't.
Host Don
Yeah, go ahead. No, you're fine.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
And so then what I did was I spent the last 40
hours of their time helping them put resumes together and getting them placed
into colleges where two of them went, three of them went, one only made it a
year, but she's back working with me and actually was a star in my natural
movie, so.
Host Don
Well, I guess the big, as you can see from the
chat stream, there's a lot of questions. And so we might take this a little out
of order, a little bit disjointed, okay? Okay, I'll be blown with you.
I mean, we were very honest with you. I talked
to you via PM. I was very open and honest with you and said you're gonna get
asked a lot of tough questions.
And I think you knew what was coming. But I
mean, I think the best thing to do is dive right in on something is you did a
lot of Kickstarters. I did, yeah.
And you raised to the tune of almost $200,000.
Go ahead, Tom.
Host Tom V
I just wanna ask for the record, because I'm
not sure. How many Kickstarters did you do?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Total, I did seven. I fulfilled one of them
under Ken Whitman Games. What we're probably gonna be talking about today is
D20, which I believe if I- Well, we're gonna be talking about, not just D20, I
mean, when you look at- They had six, D20 had six of them.
Host Don
Yeah, but the thing is, is either way, no
matter if it was not, even if it was Ken Whitman himself or D20 Entertainment,
Ken Whitman was still the man in charge, the man who got the money. Absolutely.
And I think what a lot of people are, and I'm just gonna come right out and ask
this, because this is like in the forefront of these comments, is you did all
these Kickstarters to the tune of $186,000.
I totaled it up, okay? Almost $200,000 raised.
And there's a lot of people that are going, where's my shit?
So my question is this, is you raise this
money. I have a publishing company. I know that, like as an example, at least
in Michigan, I'm required, when I raise money, to put money in escrow.
I do it for my gaming convention. What
happened to the money, Ken? I mean, I should be blunt and throw it right out
there to everybody.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
That's an absolutely fair question to ask. So
I'm gonna do the best I can with it. So let's go over a few things that I'd
like to cover, which is Nights at the Dinner Table.
Nights at the Dinner Table was actually shot,
produced, created, on the three actual episodes. One's online. The other two
was given to a zombie, I always say Orpheus, Zoe.
And they had it for two years. And I actually
believe there are quotes online where he talks about receiving it on the KODT.
And they did go ahead and release that for me.
The problem I have with Spinward Traveler,
which we did film that, we actually showed Nights at the Dinner Table at Gen
Con, all three episodes. And then we actually did show Spinward Traveler, the
green screen edition, which means we didn't have the CGI for it yet, or the
green screen taken out. They were created and produced.
Host Don
Here's the- You're saying, and I don't mean to
interrupt, but I'm just trying to make sure I keep in line here with what's
going on. So you're saying that, and we're gonna go through one of these at a
time, through the Nights at the Dinner Table, you did fulfill that kickstart.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Okay, so here's the weird part. I'm not a very
good businessman. I'm a very good creative person.
I'm a very good salesman. I'm not very good at
contracts and business. And when I did that, I had to deal with Kinzer and
company for one year to fulfill it.
I had no idea that it would take me longer
than that. So one of the problems that I have is, I can't actually fulfill it
without breaking copyright laws to Kinzer.
Host Don
I have asked if I could put the other ones-
But Ken, in all fairness, then why did you begin a Kickstarter with something
that you legally knew you could not fulfill? I didn't know it at the time.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I thought that we were gonna get it done and
we would fulfill it within a year.
Erik Tenkar
All right, Ken, just to interject. Yes. I
speak with Jolly frequently.
We knew this was gonna come up. And Jolly says
that your contract would have been up once you fulfilled it, but you never
fulfilled it. I'm just passing on what I was told.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Sure, and you know what? I have not seen that
contract in a while. I'm gonna see if I can find that, but I'm pretty sure I
had a date of completion.
Erik Tenkar
And if I'm wrong- You did. No, you did have a
date of completion, but if you missed the date, you still had to complete the
project. Now, I've been also told, if you need receipts for any conversations
with Jolly, I can obtain them.
Sure. I don't want to put you on a spot here.
No, no, go ahead.
What I'm telling you is, if you need to have
your memory corrected, I can correct it for you down the line and maybe we'll-
I would love that. But I'm telling you, I knew this question was gonna come up.
I had a feeling I knew where it was gonna go.
And I made sure I spoke with Jolly about it
ahead of time. So that's what I was told. Absolutely.
I didn't mean to interrupt the two of you, but
I- No, no, no, no, that's fair.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
That's fair. And I will tell you guys that I
have a lot of holes in my memory. So I don't mind.
And I've lost a lot of paperwork.
Host Don
But in all fairness, okay, what you've got is
you've got a series of Kickstarter. And I'm gonna say something real quick.
Kickstarters happen and something happens and you can't fulfill it.
Okay, shit happens. You break the news to your
Kickstarter followers. But this wasn't just a Kickstarter.
You did this to a tune over several years and
you've got a lot of Kickstarters. And again, I'll get right back to the
beginning of this. And that is you've got $186,000 out there, Kent.
Where did that money go? I mean- I think, no,
I'm not trying to be- No, let me ask the question, you can answer it.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Two years. I think all seven of them happened
within two years. And just to let everyone know, I can start a Kickstarter
anytime I want.
I've decided never to do it again.
Host Don
So, I mean, if I will- I mean, the thing is,
is anybody can do a Kickstarter. I mean, I understand that, but I think what
people are saying here is you have a large amount of people in here, Kent.
Correct.
Correct. That are saying, I trusted you. I
backed you, my friend.
And you went ahead and you didn't deliver
nothing. And the questions that are being asked is, just a simple question is,
you know- Well, here's something- Go ahead.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Something I don't know. Like I was told that
Ben Dobbins sent out everybody in the Kickstarter because I provided him. Okay,
who's Ben Dobbins and what Kickstarter?
Ben Dobbins is head of ZOE. And they created a
DVD and sent to every Kickstarter for Nights at the Dinner Table with all three
episodes. That is what I believe at this time.
I have never gotten proof that it is that.
Host Don
You know what? I want to highlight one comment
here. And I think it's a comment that I think really nails it.
Jason Elliott says this. He says, Ken,
honestly, Ken, the best thing you do right now is to make a sincere apology.
Yes.
Which I think you're on here wanting to kind
of make amends maybe. But, and a plan for reimbursing people for their money.
Now, you have, a part of a Kickstarter is, and I do game design and game
publishing, okay?
I manufacture games. We have our own
equipment. I know the game.
You've been in the game too. I know it well. I
do books.
I know about your POD operation. So my
question is this, is there is a difference between saying I owe you $50 for
product X, but how about I instead use my resources and get you product X? Have
you ever thought about maybe trying to, at the very minimum, try to make amends
by giving people the product they bought, or maybe try to get some type of
payment, something worked out with people?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Okay. Well, the first thing is, I've been
nearly homeless for two of the eight years. I have just now recently got up to
where I pay myself less than $18,000.
Host Don
But how? You, this is my whole point. I go
right back to my original question with you.
And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to get
argumentative with you, but it's a question that, you know, we're playing
almost like we're talking to Washington politicians here. You know, we walk
around the subject. The core question is this, and that's why I'm starting
right off the bat.
We're getting the bandaid off the wound a bit.
You have raised $186,000.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes.
Host Don
Where did the money go?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
We spent it all on producing the product.
Host Don
Okay. So you spent it all on producing the
product.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes.
Host Don
Well, that's great news that that means you
have produced the product. It's sitting somewhere. Why don't you simply ship
the product then?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
No, this is the problem. I believed that we
could do it for that money. There's really, the problem was we got maybe 60% on
some, 70% on some, 40% on some, and then ran out of money.
I mean, I was an idiot. I mean, I do
apologize. I thought I could do it all on that amount of money.
Erik Tenkar
All right, Ken, I'm gonna ask you a question.
All right, and this is a little bit from my background. With the funding from
all those initial six products, all under D20 Entertainment.
Yes. You took money in for Pencil Dice. Was it
allocated toward Pencil Dice?
Yes. Or was it put in a general fund?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Actually, yeah, all of it was put into the
company fund.
Erik Tenkar
All right, so you didn't actually say, I took
in X number of dollars for these 200 backers, and I'm gonna devote that money
to, because I know Marcus King bought you an embosser for your pencils, I
remember that. And I remember you were sending out pencils to some people. I
remember that.
Yep. And then it stopped. All right, and now
that was money that Marcus spent on you outside of the project, because you
intermingled the money from the various projects and I'm gonna ask you another
question going back to that time.
Okay. You went on a cruise. You had a car that
was on some extended test drive loan for weeks.
Yes. Was this money that was raised for the
Kickstarters that you were using for living expenses, because so many people at
that time in this industry believe that money from Kickstarters was to pay them
as opposed to fulfilling projects. So is that what happened?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Okay. So give me one second to collect my
thoughts. That's a good question.
I'm going to answer that properly. D20
Entertainment had employees, including myself, that we all paid from the funds.
The biggest one is the cruise, which is interestingly weird because I think I
went on that on an all-inclusive cruise for $299 at that time.
And I took my girlfriend.
Host Don
But do you see though how that looks?
Absolutely, I do. You have a Kickstarter.
You raised all this money in a Kickstarter.
Yes. You do not deliver the Kickstarter, but now you're driving around a brand
new car and you're going on a Caribbean cruise.
I don't know the semantics of it because I was
not with you on the cruise, but do you see how that kind of looks to people?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I absolutely do. I mean, I understand that it
looks like I had all this money and spent all this money, but I have never,
since the time that we've done this, paid myself more than $18,000 a year.
Currently I drive a 1994 Chevy.
Host Don
Now, let's talk finances here, okay? Now, I
have my own POD operation. I can do books, I can do board games, I can do
cards, I have all the equipment, okay?
I deal directly with China and Germany on my
320 GSM card stock and also on all my product, okay? So I know the back end of
the business rather well, all right? Now, you had a POD book operation in
Kentucky, correct?
Okay, in fact, is that how you met, that's how
you met Larry Elmore, wasn't it? Because he hired you to help him with his- I
met Larry Elmore when I was 18 years old. Okay, but you did work for Larry
Elmore through your POD operation, correct?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah, I mean, originally I started working
with him because I did Games Unplugged Magazine and I- Gotcha. And I redid
Snarf Quest.
Host Don
Okay, but I guess my back end point to all
this is this, is that, you know, you're not a dumb guy. You know business,
okay? You have to know business to be able to set up a Kickstarter.
So when you go to set up this Kickstarter, and
I'm just gonna pick on pencil dice, okay? Sure. All right, it applies to across
the board, but you start off by saying, okay, I know how much this pen costs
me.
Correct. All right, now I know how much I'm
gonna retail this pen for. So what I do is I know how much, based upon how many
Kickstarter supporters I have that I need to go ahead and supply, how much this
is gonna cost me.
Correct. You have to know the basics because
in order to figure out, you know what's gonna cost you. So when you start your
Kickstarter, you go, you set a goal amount.
You have met your goal amounts. So when
Kickstarter pumps that money into your bank account, now how I do it is that
money goes into an escrow account. Now you did not, obviously.
So when you got that money, why didn't you
take that money? And first things first is you go and you buy the product for
your Kickstarter supporters. And then whatever's left over, and I'm gonna use a
really weird, I know I'm gonna probably upset a few people, but that's your,
let's have fun and go on a cruise, Mike.
But at the end of the day, there's a core
amount of money though, Ken, that you have to have in order to supply your
supply. See, that's my whole point. I get the fact that you said that you're
not a very good businessman.
Okay, not everybody's a good numbers person, I
get it. But at the same token, you did it once, you did it twice, you did it
seven times and you knew people were getting mad. You knew you were pissing
people off.
So was there somebody involved taking the
money behind the scenes that nobody knows about? Were you the end money man? I
mean, did you have a silent partner?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
No, I was the end money man. But the thing is,
is when we're going back in time and it's easy to talk about it now, but this
all happened over a two year period. And there are a lot of things that
happened that I prefer not to talk about, mainly because it doesn't look good
in the light for other people.
Host Don
And I'm not really- Keep my one thing, I'm
gonna say something right here real quick. Yes. Ken, this is your chance to set
the record straight.
We have a blasting amount of people watching
this right now. Sure. We have a lot of people in active chat.
You know what? This is gonna be your chance to
say, you know what? Good, bad, the ugly.
I'm coming on here. I agree to be honest. And
this is just how it's gonna roll people and the facts of the facts.
Okay.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I mean, I can do that. I can pinpoint you the
time when everything went bad for me. I know the exact date and the exact time.
Talk to us. So this is what happened. I didn't
have a lot of contracts for things I was doing with Jolly.
We were planning on doing 99 Cents. We were
gonna take all the actors. We were gonna take every one of the actual books and
do all voice acting and sell little podcasts of all of that stuff.
When we shot Nights at the Dinner Table, we
had actors that came from Seattle that were really good. And we paid them more
than our local actors, which I had met at theater. These actors themselves,
even though in our contracts there was, don't discuss what you're getting paid.
They decided, my local actors met me on the
morning of the shoot and decided to say, you know, my grandmother died and I'm
not gonna be able to film and I don't know what we should do about it. And of
course I knew what had happened. So I suggested to them that, okay, I would pay
them.
What would happen? They were gonna walk out.
They were gonna go to his grandmother's funeral.
So I was basically being blackmailed. So I
agreed to pay them what the other actors got paid. End of story.
So what ended up happening then was I said,
look, guys, I need to raise some more money to pay you what you need to be
paid. And one of the actors, I said, I'm gonna need like 30 to 90 days. On day
30, I get a call from somebody's wife.
Who asked me why somebody hasn't been paid.
Host Don
And- Okay, I'm just gonna push you. Tell me
to, you know, go fuck myself, mind my own business. But who?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Oh, it was Jolly Blackburn's wife. And when I
told her that I needed time to pay him because we didn't have the money, she
basically called me everything but a white man and told me that if I didn't pay
him that day, that the shit was gonna go bad for me. So I said, the only money
I got is for the CDs to pay the actors.
And so that's what happened. About three days
later, Jolly called me up and said, hey, everything's going great. I go, yep,
here they are.
And he said, what do you think about doing
more? And I said, I would, but I probably don't wanna deal with your wife
because I don't like getting cursed at.
Host Don
And- Well, what's really interesting in here,
I just gotta say something real quick, is Barbara Blackburn is in here. That's
fine.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
She can say that whether she did it or not,
but I know what happened. And then afterwards, within 24 hours, everything was
shut down. I was no longer being able to do anything.
And that was pretty much the end of the whole
project. And I had already had way over budget on all of this. And I was
basically told that it is what it is.
Go ahead, Tom, go ahead.
Host Tom V
I just wanted to say, there's a lot of
comments. I've been trying to read a lot of the side comments and then double
check some stuff on the side here. And I think I'd like to try to cut through
some of this because it sounds like we're going in circles around the Mowbray
Bush.
And you say you wanna come on and make amends.
And I am all for that. David Copperfield said that the prodigal son was the
most sublime story in the English language.
And I love second chances. I love people
getting redemption. But part of making amends is that you make restitution.
And is there, I mean, we're talking hundreds
of thousands of dollars in Kickstarters raised. I don't know if that's a
possible, but what are you going to do? Because a lot of people in the comments
are saying, just his men smells like excuses and bullshit.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Just- Yeah, and that's exactly what I, I mean,
I understand their point. I agree with a lot of things.
Host Don
I guess the thing I have a problem with here,
okay? Is there's one thing I don't see here. Okay, I have personally asked you
a lot of very direct questions, okay?
And I have yet to hear you go, and I'm gonna
use some, sorry, this is not safe for case language here. But I have yet to
hear you go, you know what guys, I fucked up. I owe people money.
And you know what, I owe these people. Because
this is the thing. It doesn't matter who is mean to you.
It doesn't matter who talked bad to you. At the
end of the day, you were entrusted with a lot of money. Correct.
And at this point, you're telling people, I
don't know what I did with the money because I'm a bad businessman. And I get
the bad businessman.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes, understood. Now, realize this guys. I
could go back up anytime.
From the time we started to now. My moral
values is trying to get these done.
Host Don
But the thing is, okay, stop, I gotta stop
here. Moral values, I get it, but the thing is, is for Christ's sakes, you
know, Ken, we're not talking something that happened six months ago and you
haven't had a chance to get your plan formulated. This has been a fuck around
and find out since 2013.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I appreciate that. Do you know, I was homeless
for two years. My children haven't talked to me in nine years.
I have lived in a car for a year and a half. I
get it, man. All the people on here made sure I didn't have jobs.
Host Don
All right, no, no, no, you did, you did, hold
on.
Erik Tenkar
Hold on, I'm stepping in, I'm stepping in.
People on here made sure you didn't get jobs? I've had two death threats.
Ken, Ken, no, no, Ken, Ken, do me a favor.
We've let you talk, all right? I'm the one who you threatened to call, yo, you
didn't threaten to call the FBI.
You call the FBI on me and they're gonna wait
on my doorstep.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Shut up.
Erik Tenkar
Shut up for a minute. I've heard enough of
your shit and I'm tired of it. You gotta listen for once.
Okay, go ahead. You gotta listen, all right? I
had to inform my commanding officer that supposedly I was being investigated by
the FBI because of some knucklehead on the internet who was in the midst of
essentially doing a pyramid scheme with Kickstarter.
And because I was covering that, the FBI was
gonna be on my doorstep. So you and I don't have a great history. Why you
wanted me on here, I'm not quite sure.
But I'm gonna bring up a few dangerous facts
to you. Hold on. D20 Entertainment was never incorporated, was it?
No, it wasn't. It never existed. It was doing
business as, correct?
Host Tom V
Am I correct?
Erik Tenkar
No, it absolutely existed. It was never, it
was, I don't believe it was ever incorporated. You were doing business as.
That means that you are personally responsible
for all these debts. So yes. Number one.
You could go bankrupt. You could certainly do
that. But if you did, nobody would do business with you.
So that's why you haven't.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, the answer is, is it was incorporated.
Erik Tenkar
It was, really?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes.
Erik Tenkar
Why are you supposed to tell me it wasn't? Or
did you incorporate it after you started doing business?
Host Don
No, I mean. Okay, I guess I wanna say
something real quick, okay? Look, the bottom line is this, all right?
There's one, okay. I will say this. I
understand shit gets late, okay?
I understand shit happens. I am on the back
end of the manufacturing. I get it.
I understand things happen with suppliers,
with customs, all that good stuff. But you made a comment here a few moments
ago that Ken, I'm just gonna have to let Eric call you out on. There is not one
person in this chat, there is not one person who funded one of your
Kickstarters that did this to you.
No, you're right. The only thing these people
did. Well, hold on.
The only thing these people did, Ken, and I'm
talking level-headed, I'm not yelling at you. The only thing these people did
was they entrusted you.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
They did.
Host Don
They gave you their money. And the problem
that I have with all of this is this, is that it's not the fact that you did
not deliver the Kickstarters. It's not the fact that you had an issue, okay?
This all revolves right back down to one
sweeping circle and you said it yourself. You have, I think, the inability to
be personally culpable for your own actions. You're blaming other people.
Host Tom V
But you just said it.
Host Don
But Ken, you just said it. You said, you
blamed it.
Host Tom V
He's been trying to make amends. But how? Do
you not still have that pencil embosser?
Why hasn't the pencil?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes, we have a pencil embosser.
Host Tom V
And you can make 100 an hour. Why haven't you
done something with it?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Because I have to make a living first.
Host Don
It takes- Yes, it takes money to make stuff. I
understand that, okay? But what, again, I'm gonna go right back to my original
question that has yet to be answered.
Yes. What happened to $186,000? You obviously
did not buy the cruise with it because you paid $299 for that.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yes.
Host Don
You obviously didn't buy a car with it because
that was only on loan and you're driving some older car now. Okay, you weren't
paying rent with it because you were homeless. So what happened to $186,000?
For Christ's sakes, my friend, we're not
talking about, you know, $50,000. All right, understood.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
The Nights at the Dinner Table probably went
over budget by double. The Spinward Traveler went over budget because, you
know, there's a reason why movies cost millions of dollars. You know, I
suffered from the Dun and Kurgan.
I thought I knew what I was doing. I thought I
would, with all the knowledge of making games, I thought I knew how I could
make movies. And I didn't.
I failed. I was under budget. I went way over
budget.
Host Don
And then when everything- So the Kickstarter
money, and I'm trying to kind of keep up to this as it goes. So pretty much
what you're saying is the Kickstarter money went to fund other projects that
went over budget and you kind of got behind on that. And it was a cascading
freaking mess.
Yep.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Now I did spend $15,000 on pencil dice from
China. And when I got them, I promised that I'd have all of them done with foil
stamp. The prototypes that they sent me were good.
When I got the base shipment, they did foil on
three sides and they could not do foil on the other three. So they sent me
silkscreen for the other three.
Host Don
And- So they sent you a product that was
inferior to what you thought you were gonna be delivering. Correct. Okay.
So why did you send those out? It's something.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, the thing was is at the time, I believed
that it had to be all foil stamped.
Host Don
Okay. So where are these dice at right now? I mean,
I imagine there's people that bought it would just say, hey, listen, man, you
know what?
Just give me anything, I'll be happy.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, the answer to that was during my
multiple moves in my homeless, I left a bunch of stuff with one of my friends
and including drives that ended up getting burnt. Now I did since then have
re-bought all the pencils. I have 100, 200,000 of them.
I have 100,000 pencils. It's just gonna take
me time to get them all created.
Host Don
But the thing is, this doesn't make sense to
me because what you're basically saying is that you have all the dice, you have
the tools and equipment now, and it was just gonna take you a long time to do
it. So my question for you is this, is why did you not, why not in the last
year, why not in the last five years start just making pencil dice and shipping
them as you got them?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, the answer to that is you need to, for
me to finish up everything manually with the equipment I have, if I worked 40
hours a week, would take a year and a half. You have to have a job.
Host Don
You have to be able to- Oh, oh, oh, believe
me, I get it.
Host Tom V
You gotta make money to live, but on the same
token- I'm just saying that you shouldn't put food on the table. You should pay
your bills. You should have a job.
But 40 hours is not the whole week. And we all
have hobbies and stuff we do on the side. Saturdays for mowing the lawn, screw
the lawn, make a few pencils.
You know, I have actually- Because it comes
right back to, it sounds like a lot of excuses, Ken, and- It does sound like a
lot of excuses, and I completely understand that.
Host Don )
Okay, let's do this. Let's step away here. The
dice are what they are.
K-O-D-T is what it is. But let's talk now
about, what about Dice-O-Matic? Because Dice-O-Matic, you raised, you were
gonna raise and they canceled us.
Let's meet back up. Let me back off that. So
then you get into Deck Dice.
You raised $5,197 on Deck Dice, and you were
actually, wasn't that actually, or the pencil, or whatever, wasn't that
actually taken from a guy by the name of Sebastian Barjang? Because your
Kickstarter used language that was verbatim from his Deck Dice. It was
verbatim, like literally, I mean, I compared the two.
Literally, you take them, they were lined up
verbatim, and his fundraiser was an entire year and a half before yours. So you
were, I guess my question is, is that that right there, you raised $38,161 off
that project. On which one?
The Pencil Dice. Oh yeah, Pencil Dice, yes.
And that was actually taken, that was a Kickstarter that you did that you
raised 31 grand on, and that was actually, the Kickstarter language was a
verbatim language from Sebastian Barjang.
Matter of fact, I reached out to Sebastian,
okay? And I asked him about this, and his comment was, and I'm gonna read this
reply to you verbatim. Okay.
He says, it's not the fact that he took my
idea. I understand people take ideas and move on. However, that man utterly
destroyed me.
He destroyed me by people associated his
project with mine. I have never been late delivering a project. And what he did
was, is when I had the audacity to ask him to please stop it, he threatened me
along with the FBI, he threatened to take me to court and bankrupt me.
And then when I confronted him further, he
went ahead and threatened me of physical violence. And by the way, he sent me a
screenshot of your message to him. You threatened to beat the ever-loving shit
out of that guy.
Now, I understand that was back in the day.
Now, you have indicated before that you suffered some type of traumatic brain
injury, correct?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
The answer to that is, I have been to the
hospital for memory loss. I scored four out of five. They wanted to do more
stuff.
Four out of five of what? I don't know what
you mean. That's all they told me.
For my age, I answered four out of the five
things correctly. They wanted to do more research, but of course I'm poor, so I
don't have the money to do that. But you were diagnosed with what?
E something? What was it? No, I was never
diagnosed with CTE.
They wanted, they believed that because I
played college football and I've had about 3,200.
Host Don
Wait a minute, wait a minute, CTE? Yes. Wait a
minute, CTE, that is only diagnosable, Eric, you did research on that.
After you die, correct.
Erik Tenkar
Yeah, it has to be an autopsy. And Ken, you're
the one, you yourself, I can go back to my records and pull it up, I won't be
for this show, that claimed that your issues were because you were suffering
from CTE and were gonna be treated for it. I remember this because I remember
going, the man's alive, I've seen a video on this, and I know it's only
diagnosed upon death.
So, Ken, you have to forgive me if my 20 years
in law enforcement, my 12 years in internal affairs, I have a bullshit meter,
all right? I do have a bullshit meter, all right? It's not quite Spidey sense,
it's a bit more accurate.
And you, my personal opinion, okay? And I
can't speak for my compatriots here, but you've been spewing a little truth and
a lot of shit, all right? And I don't know why.
Now, I'd like to ask you a very important
question. Okay. Why the fuck are you here?
What is it that brought you out here? Because
it isn't about redemption, Ken. All right?
And if you're telling us you can do a
Kickstarter at the drop of a hat. Yes. This Kickstarter was not gonna know that
you didn't fulfill your last six because it was a different company that did or
did not exist.
You're out of your mind, personally. My
personal opinion, because your reputation, such as it is, and it's not because
of anybody on the screen, it's because of you. Your reputation precedes you.
And I've spoken to people in the film industry
where you've worked. I spoke with a woman a couple of years ago out in Atlanta
who was doing your laundry, cooking for you. She did not have nice things to
say about you, but it wasn't relevant at the time for me to do anything more
than put it into my file.
But people that you interact with generally
feel that they were taken advantage of. All right? That is the general feeling.
All your backers feel that you were taken
advantage of. You have pencils, you have an embosser, and you can't take out 30
minutes a day to do anything to fulfill your backers. You're not here to...
Your apologies don't mean anything without
actions. Okay? Absolutely.
You are not taking any action. Coming on this
show is not an act of redemption. It's an act of you trying to...
Under the illusion of trying to make amends,
you are blaming things on other people. I know Barbara Blackburn. I know that
the words that you said about a child of hers, when I heard what you said, it
fucking floored me.
And you've never apologized for it because
I've been told that you never have apologized for it. And that shocks me. For
somebody who's looking for redemption, somebody who's here saying, hey, I'm
throwing my sins on the table.
Please forgive me. I'd like to make amends.
That's the person you should be making amends to before anybody else.
You're absolutely right. Barbara, if you're
listening... She's not.
She's only tired of listening to what she
said. In the chat, there's shit coming out of your mouth.
Host Don
Let me throw this in there real quick, okay?
All right? Let's take a deep breath.
Pause for a moment. And let's just take this
very clinically, all right? All right.
Knight's Quest. Let's just do this one at a
time. No bullshit, no arguing, no yelling at you.
Host Tom V
Knight's Quest. Let me back you up a minute
because Eric asked a question. He didn't get answered and he actually stole my
question I was gonna ask.
Nobody's buying the excuses in the chat, okay?
And so I'm looking at your career. Whitman Productions taken over by your
investors.
There's just one after another business,
irrespective of the Kickstarters, that's all under a storm. And Elmore
Productions, the fastest way to get ghosted by Elmore is to bring your name up
and he's done talking to you. So there's a lot of dirt there.
And you said it yourself, you're not a good
businessman. You're a good idea guy. You're a good promoter.
You're very charismatic. You're a good talker.
What I'm really curious and what Eric asked, but then he thought quite a bit
was, what do you hope to accomplish here tonight?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
You know, that's a good question. I'm not here
to try to change anybody's opinion of me. I've actually had a lot of personal
growth.
And I would like to apologize to everybody,
especially Barbara. Things that I wanna say is, This is your chance, Ken.
Host Don
You're on here. We have 100 people plus
watching this right now. This is it, buddy.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
The problem, going back in the past and
dissecting everything. Number one, I have holes in my memory. Now here's the
thing.
I did say horrible things to people. I
absolutely regret. Absolutely regret things that I said.
However, I do wanna say, it's not like I just
bipolarly started yelling and screaming at people. There is things that bring
things up.
Host Don
I don't wish to talk about them. Well, let me
ask you this question. We'll keep it very easy then.
Wendy Lord is in here, okay? I do not know
Wendy personally. I know Wendy's name from online.
She's a big gamer. She's very involved in the
gaming community for what I've seen. And Wendy says this.
She says, I lost money on three of his
Kickstarters, grr. Okay, you are in a room alone with Wendy right now. What do
you wanna say to Wendy Lord about these three Kickstarters which she entrusted
you, Ken, with her money, her faith?
There's a basic premise among gamers.
Everybody's welcome at the table, okay? There's a premise among gamers.
You know what? We don't give a shit what your
fucking politics are, what your religion is. Let's game and have fun.
But there's one thing gamers can't abide by is
getting fucked over by a fellow gamer. So here's Wendy looking at you going,
Ken, I lost money on three of your Kickstarters. What do you say to her?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Wendy, I can't change the past. I apologize
for everything that has happened. I messed up a tremendous amount.
I'm still trying. I'm not for sure, and I'm
not gonna make promises of when it will happen. I'm gonna do my best to reach
out to everybody, continue down the road of trying to get these done while I
focus on my growth and getting everything done with the films that I'm
releasing.
There's no reason for anyone to believe me.
Other than a track record, I have actually released one movie. Another one's
coming out.
Host Don
I have six more coming out. But these movies
take a lot of money to put together and to get out there. Correct.
Okay? Why are you not then going something,
and maybe I don't understand the movie business. I've never made a movie, okay?
But why are you not saying, hey, a portion of
all my profits are gonna go to the X Fund, which is gonna go to get these, not
the Kickstarters fulfilled, because you can't produce product you no longer can
produce, but at least to say, you know what, Wendy, I may have sat there and
screwed you over for 300 bucks, but I'm at least gonna try to give you 100
bucks of it, just something to get you back.
And that's the thing I have a problem with you
right now, Ken. Before this video, we talked on PM, and you were adamant that,
you know, Don, I know the question is gonna ask, I wanna make amends. I really
wanna make this right with people.
But I tell you, Ken, I have not heard that.
All I've heard is you come in here and go, I was a bad businessman. And the
reason why this happens is because of those people, your words, not mine.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah.
Host Don
And the thing is, these people, only thing
these people did was they looked at Ken Whitman, D20 Entertainment or whatever,
and said, you know what, I'm gonna trust this man with my hard-earned money.
And when it wasn't delivered, instead of getting, guys, I fucked up. I get,
they get instead, well, it's your fault.
You don't understand how tough this business
is. I do. You know what happens when-
Host Tom V
People want you to take responsibility.
That's where all this anger in the chat is.
Okay, so- Wait a minute, let me help you out here. Okay.
It's, you know, it's about making,
restitution's about making amends. It's about making somebody whole. And, you
know, you're probably not gonna be able to do the biblical restitution, which
was if you stole one sheep from somebody, you had to return four.
You know, it was four times the amount. You
probably can't do that. I don't think you can.
But, you know, there's, it just doesn't seem
to be, and Wampler said it in a comment. He says, let me help you out here,
Ken. Go back to step one and start there.
You know, it's really, you know, we talk about
the 12 steps. They use it for a lot of different things besides sobriety. But
you really, you need to get, say, listen, I fucked up.
You've got to do the mea culpa. You seem to be
trying to do that, but it's all the excuses kind of undo anything you've done.
And until people see some real amends, not excuses, nobody's gonna trust you.
Nobody's going, nobody's gonna forgive you.
Host Don
That's part of the- I have a question to ask
Ken real quick. Taking all this stuff off, move this out of the way. So, Ken,
besides movie making right now, what are your current game projects you're
developing?
I mean, what do you got in kind of in mind,
anything flowing, anything kind of in the plans or works or anything? Not
Kickstarters. I'm talking about just general.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, here's the deal, guys. I make games all
the time. It's my hobby.
It's not what I do. I don't even publish them.
I've got probably 12 to 14 unpublished games that I'm sitting on.
I have contemplated, reached out to people to
take the movie stuff that I'm doing and making RPGs with them. I think
Unnatural would be a good RPG for somebody. I mean, the whole reason I got into
movies was when I was making role-playing games, I always thought, you know,
maybe one day some movie company would come and find one of our products and
make a movie out of it.
Well, now that I'm on this end of it, all that
I've realized is that movies are nothing more than very large commercials used
to sell your product and merchandise, right? Well, I am probably 24 months away
from even having a profit off of anything that I'm doing. I am barely making a
living right now and have to stretch out another 24 months before I see any
profits from a film.
Host Tom V
You know, let me just spitball a solution here
for you. You love writing games, you're a game designer, I get that. I think
all of us here on the screen have the same itch.
You know, your publish, why not just write
something and put it up POD, use a pen name like Mark Twain did because kind of
Ken Whitman is kind of mud in the gaming sector. So use a pen name and, but set
it up so that any profit that comes in from that goes to a escrow fund. You
know, I mean, I bet Eric or Don would love to help you set up some sort of an
escrow fund where that money is only gonna go.
Erik Tenkar
Rest assured. Keeping out of this part, thank
you.
Host Tom V
All right, well, no, I just spitball.
Host Don
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but bottom
line is this, is Tom, you know, this is the thing, is, you know, he doesn't
even, I mean, this is the thing. He doesn't even have to have somebody backing
him. All he has to do, and Ken, this is something you could do.
You could go ahead and you could like take
some of your game ideas that you have because we all have them flowing. I mean,
let's face it, like Tom said, we all have the itch. God knows I have a really
big itch.
But the thing is, what you could do is you
could say, I'm gonna start a drive-through RPG account and I'm gonna every
month, I'm gonna post my RPG drive-through statement and I'm gonna go ahead and
I'm going to put this into a escrow trust fund and I'm gonna every month just
start slinging a few bucks here and there to people. You'll never pay people
back, A, number one. You're never gonna pay people back for what you own.
But the thing is, is this, at the end of the
day, what you could do is you could try, but the problem with all this is, and
you said it yourself, Ken, okay? And I don't mean this in a combative way, I
don't mean to be this in a demeaning way, okay? But like you just said about 45
minutes ago, it's all of them that caused this.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
It wasn't them that caused this. But you said
that. And see, first of all- I did say that because for a second, I got angry.
And I apologize for that.
Host Don
It's those moments, it's moments of anger that
show the true ocularity of our actions.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah, I mean, there are still a lot of things,
guys, that I'm dealing with in counseling and coping. Now, there's a lot of
things up there on the internet about me. There's also a lot of things that
aren't up there.
Host Don
Like, for instance- Oh, come on. I mean, first
of all, you know what? The internet is what it is.
People can put anything they want on the
flippin' internet. Hell, there's a guy running around right now that says I was
arrested this morning in Battle Creek, Michigan and put in jail. Literally, no,
he tweeted that this morning.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Oh, I guess that's just something you're
saying.
Host Don
No, it's just a fucking idiot from North
Carolina. But the point is, bottom line is this. Anybody can post anything.
But you know what? The difference is this, is
I operate under my own actions. I know what I owe people.
And when someone gives me money, I don't care
what the shipping up charges are. I don't care if product costs changed. If
they bought that product for 39.95 and it costs me now 49.95, guess what?
They're getting it for 39.95. That's basic, practical, honorable business
sense.
Host Don
And you know what? Like you said before, you
used an excuse before in one of your Kickstarter, you said the shipping charges
tripled. That is total unmitigated, sorry, bullshit, because in my many years
of doing business and shipping, I've seen shipping jump a couple bucks, 50
cents, but I've never seen shipping jump triple.
Now I know what you were doing. You were
attempting at that time to mitigate the problem that you backed yourself into,
the corner, I get it. But again, all of this talk tonight now for one hour, all
of this chat that we've been having now for 57 minutes has revolved around one
thing.
Ken, how many chance do we have to give you?
Admit you fucked up, but also just simply say, this is why I did it, this is
where the money went. Again, I'll ask again for the, I'm keeping track the 11th
time.
Ken, I'll ask you bluntly, $187,000. Can you
show where any of that money went? You mean like an accounting?
My friend, if I had $187,000, I could tell you
generically where it went. Like, did you buy equipment with it? Did you buy,
because this is the thing, in the printing business, if you gave me $187,000
right now, I could buy a whole lot of printing equipment and game making
equipment.
Oh, absolutely. So where did the money go?
Because like you said, you don't have a car, you didn't go on an expensive
cruise, you didn't have a home, you're homeless.
So if you're no vehicle, no home, and you have
$187,000 out there, where did it go?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
You know, that's a fair question. I'll tell
you what I will do. I will backtrack through.
Host Don
It helps us, and then right here, I know
you're gonna say, you're giving the typical Republican, Democrat, politician
response. Let me circle back to that, and I'll get the records and I'll let you
know.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I will tell you this, less than $20,000 went
into my pocket, and everything else went into trying to create what we did.
Host Don
Okay, so $170,000, okay, ballpark, $150,000.
Yes. Went into getting this product made, correct?
Correct. Okay, where's the product?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, the three of the nights of the dinner
table got produced and went to Zoey. How much was that, ballpark? $60,000,
$70,000.
Host Don
Okay, so what I'm looking at though, and I'm
gonna pull this up real quick. When I'm looking though at the list, the nights
of the dinner table was $69,925, so it falls right in line with what you just
said. Yeah.
So, okay, let's take that out, nights of the
dinner table, but what about night's quest? Let's spin word traveler, castles
and crusades, pencil dice, RPG pencil dice, and deck dice.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Okay. Night's quest got fulfilled. It's the
one that actually happened.
Host Don
Okay, so for $9,234, that's fulfilled. Angels
sing, amen, happy days. So now out of 180,000, we are talking now you're down
to a hundred grand cold hard cash for, let's just do this, let's break it down
one by one.
What about spin word traveler? That was
$49,588.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Spin word traveler, we started writing the
scripts for it and we did not get through. I think that's when everything went
bad. So I probably spent somewhere in our neighborhood at about $10,000 getting
that ready to go.
Okay.
Host Don
What's next? Well, I mean, if you're gonna go
right on down the list, we can keep this real brief cause I know it's getting
late. I know that.
Castles and crusades for six grand.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
We actually filmed that one. It cost me about
15,000. Okay, but it's filmed.
It's filmed. I gave it to a Troll Lord games.
It was not what they wanted.
They had never released it.
Host Don
Okay. So you fulfilled castles and crusades,
did what you're supposed to. You gave it to Troll Lord games.
Troll Lord looked at it and said, oh, this is
not what we want. Correct?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Correct. And I have asked, I had said that I
would redo that for them.
Host Don
Okay. So at least that's on the record. So
that's on, so you're saying that's on castles, or excuse me, that's on castles
and crusades, or Troll Lord games.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, it's still on me because I'm the one
who's supposed to deliver it.
Host Don
Okay. But have they told you what they wanted
done with it? They have, yes.
Okay. When was this?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Probably after I produced the one that I gave
them. How long ago?
Host Don
Oh man, that had to be seven or eight years
ago. Okay. So seven or eight years ago, you gave it to them.
They looked at it and said, we don't like
this. This is what we want instead. And you have it back, right?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah.
Host Don
I mean, I still have it. Okay. So for seven,
eight years, what have you done with it?
Why haven't you done what they wanted?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, when you don't have any money, you can't
do anything.
Host Don
Well, me sitting in front of my computer cost
me nothing except an electric bill. Yes. You know, what about RPG pencil dice?
And I have one more for that. And like I said,
I know it's getting really late for people, but let me back up. Let's just do
this.
You know what? I think the bottom line is
this. I think at the end of the day, you know, I just think, Ken, what you need
to do is, I really think you need to really stop, take a look inward and
realize you're hurting a lot of people.
I am.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
You are. And I apologize for that.
Host Don
I mean, it's great that you come on here and
you apologize, okay? But there's a lot of people in here going, we appreciate
the apology, but we've heard this before. Where is everything that's going on?
Where is stuff at? I mean, let me, okay, to
end this, Ken, the interview is done. Thank you for coming on.
But let me ask you this question. What are
your plans, if any, to make amends to these people? What do you want to do
here?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Well, you actually, you guys actually gave me
some good ideas about taking things that I have already done and being able to
put them out there and put them towards a fund for people. I like that idea.
Secondly, I have learned from my past that if you make promises that you don't
know when they're going to come to fruition, they're just more broken promises.
My plans are still to fulfill these
Kickstarters. I cannot give you times or deadlines because right now I'm just
trying to survive and make money so that I can try to fulfill them in the
future.
Host Tom V
Other than that- Can I ask a question?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yeah.
Host Tom V
Because I don't think anybody in the comments
just on the tone of their comments, they're going to accept that answer. But
why don't you take a year to marinate on this and maybe pursue some of this and
come back to us in a year and say, all right, you guys challenged me, here's
what I've been able to do.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
And- I think that's a good idea, actually.
Host Tom V
You know, I mean, if the other people on the show
are not in favor of that, I will have you on my show and let you say, all
right, this is what I've done, this is what I've been able to raise, and this
is how much I've been able to pay back to these people.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I think that's a good idea.
Host Tom V
Because I do like a redemption story, but
dude, you've got to do something. It can't be taught.
Host Don
Yeah, and the thing is, you going on here, you
attacking Barbara Blackburn. I didn't attack her, I told you the exact truth of
what happened.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
You asked me what happened, I told you what
happened.
Host Don
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, we asked you a
question and you answered it, I got you back. So, all right, well, let's do
this. It is nine o'clock, we usually run until nine o'clock here on the blog of
many things.
I know it was a tough hour for you. It is.
Okay, we appreciate you coming on.
I'm gonna make an offer right now in front of
everybody in here. If you think about this for a week or two, and you start
coming up with ideas, how you plan on doing this, then I'll have you back on
and I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll mute my mic and I'll let you at the floor
and you can just say, this is what I'm gonna do, ladies and gentlemen, to start
making this right.
Maybe it's not to make it right with
everybody, but at least there'll be some start. So that's the offer I have on
the table. If you wanna take it, it's in front of everybody.
Fair enough?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Yep, I appreciate it. And I do wanna end it
with this if it's all right. Sure.
Eric, I really do apologize for being a dumb
shit.
Erik Tenkar
Well, you know what? I don't have to take your
fucking apology.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
You do not have to.
Erik Tenkar
Okay, I went through fucking hell because of
you.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I know, I understand.
Erik Tenkar
So, and if you think I am a person that's
pissed off at you, I am nothing compared to some others.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
Understood.
Erik Tenkar
Others got screwed out of money. I got screwed
on a more personal level, but people put their faith in you. And you know what?
I know this is the beginning of a redemption
tour. That's the way I'm looking at it. And I'll be honest with you.
You've dug yourself such a deep fucking hole
that you're gonna take a long time to get out of this if you ever do, all
right? And the first way you're gonna get out of that is to actually apologize
to people. Not find excuses.
And if you can't crank out 50 pencils a day
and take a little bit less time on the shitter, there's an issue, all right?
You can't tell me you have these pencils you spent $15,000 on, and you can't
crank out 10 pencils a day. You have to look at yourself.
You're not. You're looking at everybody else
and you're looking to find the reasons why you're not accomplishing as opposed
to accomplishing. But I'm done.
I'm done.
Ken “Whit” Whitman
That was fair. I appreciate what you said. All
right.
Host Don
Well, Ken, again, thank you very much for
coming on, okay? Like I said, we knew it was gonna be a tough hour. Offer's
still open.
If you figure out what you wanna do and you
have a realistic plan, you wanna get on a broadcast and say, everybody, this is
what I'm gonna do, you're welcome to it, all right?
Ken “Whit” Whitman
I appreciate the offer. I think I will show
back up again when I have things to show.
Host Don
Okay. Ken, again, thank you for tuning in.
Thanks for coming on, okay?
Thank you, Steve. And we'll talk to you later,
all right?
Host Tom V
Thanks to all the commenters.
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